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  • Social Garou

    I was wondering what people thought of the interesting synergy of the W20 Merits of Fair Glabro, Animal Magnetism, and Supporter for Homid characters? Without using any Gifts, you can appear to be an Adonis, get a -4 difficulty of Social rolls with humans (-2 difficulty with Garou and wolves), and give group efforts +1 dice. While you are probably permanently assigned to the 'Veil Repair Team', your character is probably going have a sweet life for a Garou.

  • #2
    The -4 Dif to Social rolls is more complicate than you are presenting it.

    Animal Magnetism gives -2 Dif to "attract, persuade, charm, or seduce" those that would be attracted to you (of your Breed, but I'm assuming you meant for this to be for a Homid character). That's in no way all Social rolls.

    And Supporter says -2 Dif to Social rolls (granted), but the previous sentence implies that it is only when working with someone/a group. Not to all Social rolls ever.

    That being said, I don't see how stacking these Merits will make any real difference (character concept-wise) from just making a Social character. Sure, some specific rolls are going to be easier for you but overall you are still going to fall into doing the same tasks that you would without these.

    I'm surprised to didn't throw Enchanting Voice in there too (I'm guessing because it was printed in V20 and not W20).


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    • #3
      It don't see how Fair Glabro plays into it. Animal Magnetism and Supporter don't really work with Intimidation, and that's the only thing Glabro would help with mechanically. Being in Glabro doesn't make you an "Adonis" it just makes you big and tough.

      I also think that Animal Magnetism and Supporter are only going to overlap in a narrow band of overlap between the two Merits. If you want all those bonuses to give rousing speeches... yeah, it's potent, but that's only so useful for the Garou.

      Given the very loose support over social mechanics in the game, it strikes me as one of those places where it's powerful but in an avenue where there's not a lot of impact to putting down all that value.

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      • #4
        Animal Magnetism specifically says 'Others of your breed (humans if you're homid, wolves if you're lupus; metis should pick either humans or wolves, not Garou) find you especially attractive. Your rolls to attract, persuade, charm, or seduce those individual is at -2 difficulty. This effect does not apply to threatening or intimidating actions' (W20, p. 480). It does not say that it applies only to entities that would be attracted to you, it says that everyone of that breed finds you especially attractive and you get a modifier to the following rolls. Fair Glabro is just essential for any social Garou who does not want to die early on because it is much better to be in Glabro than in breed form.

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        • #5
          Honestly, the fact that you regen in glabro makes it a -huge- no no in games I've been. You do NOT give ANY clue that you are supernatural.

          As for Animal Magnetism, it's kind of seen as the 'rape' power. Due to it being typical for all garou until W20, and its ability to make others want you even if they might not.

          I'd say social (in human/wolf sense) garou have low Rage and a lot of Charisma. Or they generally overcome the Rage scariness somehow.


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          • #6
            Animal Magnetism is a Merit, not Animal Attraction (which is no more a 'rape' power than having Charisma 5 or Appearance 5).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
              Animal Magnetism is a Merit, not Animal Attraction (which is no more a 'rape' power than having Charisma 5 or Appearance 5).
              Edition after edition, I just wish they would simplify it into a dice bonus or something. The system as-is represents the essence of needless complication when "add Primal-Urge to seduction and carousing rolls, ignore Rage penalties to these types of social actions in addition to intimidation" would be much easier to use and much more upfront, instead of a somewhat obscure function crammed in between two other systems.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                As for Animal Magnetism, it's kind of seen as the 'rape' power. Due to it being typical for all garou until W20, and its ability to make others want you even if they might not.
                Statements like this make me wonder what on earth other people's games are like. How does being sexually desirable = rape, again?
                Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 02-08-2017, 03:15 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                  Statements like this make me wonder what on earth other people's games are like. How does being sexually desirable = rape, again?
                  I remember a discussion about this from the mailing list.

                  It had to be explained that it gets someone's motor running, it doesn't put the user if that ability in the driver seat,

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                    Statements like this make me wonder what on earth other people's games are like. How does being sexually desirable = rape, again?
                    Actually, I have never SEEN it used, due to the nature of most online games. But as far as I know about the issues, it is a question of the target's want to have sex with the garou if animal magnetism wasn't used. Aka, is it a magical date rape drug?

                    Another is, that the revised kinda painted this picture of garou going to seek mates in bars in groups. Essentially using these people.

                    And then there is this pack tactic;

                    Originally posted by Players Guide to Garou, p. 80-81

                    Animal Magnetism: When one werewolf hunts
                    alone for a mate, she can use Animal Attraction (see
                    Werewolf,page 199) to find a bed partner. When a whole
                    pack goes out on the prowl, the town better lock up all its
                    sons and daughters. The cumulative effect of a group of
                    werewolves all evidentially checking out the local talent
                    can have the effect of raising the general level of sexual
                    tension in a bar or club so high that it becomes easier for
                    everyone there to seduce someone else. The werewolves,
                    of course, are in the best position of all.
                    Every werewolf of the appropriate sex for the partner
                    the werewolf is attempting to seduce actively participating
                    in flirting and teasing the humans around them decreases
                    the difficulty of the Animal Attraction roll by one.
                    Packmates required: 2 or more Performable alone?Yes


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post
                      Statements like this make me wonder what on earth other people's games are like. How does being sexually desirable = rape, again?
                      The ability used to be written in a way that implied that if you rolled it, you bypassed the humans emotions and more or less forced them to have sex (for the record, I'm thinking of 2nd ed. at the moment). It was a "extended, resisted success test." The Garou just had to make rolls accumulating the victim's Willpower rating in successes and it was implied that that would overcome any higher mind resistance the person would have to sleeping with the Garou in question. "In this way, Garou may breed with humans without having to resort to subtle social tricks."

                      Now while I may or may not agree with the extreme it can be presented as (the internet is all about extremes with little middle ground) I can certainly understand why some people felt that's how the ability read. In W20 they very specifically changed the wording around to make it understood that it won't force someone to do something they don't want to. Whether or not that was the intent all along is debatable, but I'm glad for the clarification.


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                      • #12
                        In W20, it is phrased different and specifically says that Animal Attraction only works with humans who are already receptive to having sex with the Garou. If a human is not already receptive to having sex with the Garou, Animal Attraction does not work. That is probably why it is a Charisma-based roll instead of a Manipulation-based roll. It is also no longer an extended or group effort, meaning that Garou are unlikely to pick up partners with medium to high Willpower.

                        What does that mean? Garou tend to have the best luck at single's bars and can effectively replace Subterfuge-based Seduction with Primal Urge-based Seduction. Garou are just more honest and direct about what they want and, because of their raw sexual nature, some humans respond well to it. The opening line changes from 'aren't people hear fake, it is so nice to meet a real person' to 'we are both looking for a good time, so let's save money on drinks and head back to your place so we can do it like animals while we are both sober enough to enjoy it'.

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                        • #13
                          I play high social stat characters who seduce people like this:

                          /Reposted from the Exalted Forums

                          I find the best scenario for a seduction character is to have the NPC be interested in having sex with someone. What the character seducing has to do is convince the NPC to have sex with the character instead of someone else. Less rapey that way.

                          If the NPC isn't interested in sex, then my character would use something else in their social arsenal to get what they need from the NPC. Seduction characters can do more than convince people to have sex.

                          In a Seven Seas game, my character seduced the duelist of one of the villains. By the end of the story, he was MY duelist, not the asshole villain's.

                          Also, I think some players forget that emotional connections go both ways. The original plan for the duelist was to use him and then kill him. My Seven Seas character, while wasn't in love with the poor duelist, grew quite fond of him. If the game continued, she probably would have kept him around.



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                          • #14
                            To be fair, like I said above, never EVER seen it used in a game. If kinfolk are there, why the heck should they go and mate with randos?

                            Kind of same thing with those unknowing of the change vs those knowing. The setting flip flopping between knowing vs not knowing does not help.


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                            • #15
                              Well, breeding outside the group brings in new blood for the Kinfolk (sort of what the Khan did with the British), but I think that there are probably lots of Kinfolk out there. I usually rule that there are 100 Human Kinfolk per Homid Garou and 10 Wolf Kinfolk per Lupus Garou (wolves are much rarer than humans).

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