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Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th Anniversary

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  • Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th Anniversary

    I've played Vampire; The Masquerade 20th Anniversary. I just recently got a file containing the Manual for Werewolf. However certain things don't quite make sense. I.E. Gifts, Rage, Gnosis, etc. I was wondering if anyone on here could better explain the system to me. Feel free to call me an idiot if you wish, but I just don't have the time to read the manual cover to cover.

    The two systems that are used are highly different from each other, though similarities do exist. So, basically what I'm asking for is a breakdown, or a quick explanation of the system the game uses for characters.
    Last edited by PunkManiak; 02-16-2017, 01:10 PM.

  • #2
    The Werewolf the Apocalypse forum is here. You might have better luck specifying what doesn't make sense about those things.

    I'm guessing a mod will move the post over.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
      I've played Vampire; The Masquerade 20th Anniversary. I just recently got a file containing the Manual for Werewolf. However certain things don't quite make sense. I.E. Gifts, Rage, Gnosis, etc. I was wondering if anyone on here could better explain the system to me. Feel free to call me an idiot if you wish, but I just don't have the time to read the manual cover to cover.

      The two systems that are used are highly different from each other, though similarities do exist. So, basically what I'm asking for is a breakdown, or a quick explanation of the system the game uses for characters.

      For some reason, the system seems not to be displaying my update. So there's essentially what I'm asking for.

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      • #4
        There's an overview of the character creation process on page 113 followed by a character creation example. Telling us you're too lazy to read the book isn't the best way to get help though.

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        • #5
          I have work, and regular cleaning around the house. I don't have time. I was mostly asking for clarification and explanations regarding some of the differences between the two systems.

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          • #6
            It's been a while since I read the Vampire Books, but I'll attempt to answer your question.

            Gifts are like Disciplines, except you have to negotiate with Spirits to teach your Garou Character the gift. Gifts have ranks, but you don't need to buy a Level One Theurge Gift to buy a level two Theurge Gifts. Garou can not create their own gifts, though I suppose a player could create a gift and the spirit that teaches the gift.

            Rage/Gnosis is similar to Blood. Rage represents how angry your character is at the corruption of Gaia. A Garou regains rage when they look at the moon for the first time or when they see a pack mate injured, etc. Gnosis represents your character's spiritual connection to Gaia. You can meditate (?) or regain Gnosis at Caerns, which are spiritual Holy sites for Garou. You can not spend Rage and Gnosis on the same turn.

            It's probably better to read the book. While the book is rather large, the sections on Rage and Gnosis are rather short. You don't need to read ALL the gifts, but focus on the ones that impact your character's Auspice, Breed, Tribe.
            Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-16-2017, 02:06 PM.


            Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

            The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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            • #7
              I'll go back over those areas. I'm kind of thinking about developing a combat-focused Glasswalker Ahroun.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
                I'll go back over those areas. I'm kind of thinking about developing a combat-focused Glasswalker Ahroun.

                Glasswalkers are my favorite Tribe. They are great if you want a more modern outlook than the traditional Garou society.

                I got a Glasswalker Ahroun in my quest called "Crack of Thunder". She's all about the Firearms. Glasswalkers have some great Firearm Gifts, though you can't get the good ones until you are Fostern.

                City Running is a good Homid Gift for an Urban Werewolf.


                Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

                The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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                • #9
                  The character idea I had, was kind of an alteration or manipulation of my current character on another RP-site. I don't know if he would work as a Glasswalker, because his primary skills are hand-to-hand combat and music. He's basically a genius musician, who just so happens to be able to beat the shit out of most who would step to him. However part of why I wanted to go with Glasswalker is because the character is a city-boy born and bred, born to Irish Immigrant parents, and raised in Hell's Kitchen, New York. So think more of a wise-guy, with a penchant for vigilante justice on occasion. He loves the city, and all of it's filth, and poverty.

                  http://silenceandwhispers.icyboards....ad.php?tid=468

                  That's what the character currently looks like, I figure he'll need a lot of tweaking and altering in order to work.

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                  • #10
                    Glasswalkers are the Establishment, Corporate, Military, Computer Hacker Tribe. They are all about technology and forward thinking. May not fit your character too well.

                    You have a few options for your character.

                    Breed is going to be Homid obviously.

                    A musician Character screams Galliard to me. They are the Bards and Lore Masters in the Garou Nation. They can be the second best Auspice at Combat.

                    Tribe, you can go two ways:

                    Bone Gnawers are the other Urban Werewolves. Their stereotype is homeless couch surfers, but really they are anti-materialistic. They live on the fringes of Society and help the poor of the city. They are the Garou equivalent of Nosferatu, but prettier.

                    If you want to go full combat, I suggest Get of Fenrir. Just because you aren't in a "City werewolf" tribe, doesn't mean your character has to live in the boonies. Get of Fenrir get all the cool Ahroun Gifts as Tribal Gifts. You can be a Galliard and have Razor Claws at the same time.

                    Irish Parents equals Fianna usually, but I don't see your character as being very Fae oriented. You could make the music aspect work for that angle.

                    Note, these are just my suggestions to give you a starting point for your research.
                    Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-16-2017, 02:35 PM.


                    Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

                    The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, in the name of getting people to try it out:

                      Basic systems - Things like Attributes, Abilities, Willpower, dice rolling, etc., are 99% the same as V20. There are a couple differences here and there but nothing that's going to break the game if you mix them up (though the results might look funky, and that's usually a good indicator that this occurred). W20 does not assume Nature and Demeanor are default traits, but includes them as optional rules.

                      Vampire specific systems - Well, ignore these from V20, because they don't matter to werewolves. Anything that's about how a vampire works (like what spending blood does, Disciplines, etc.) isn't going to stay the same. This includes Humanity/Paths, and Virtues.

                      Core Werewolf specific stuff:

                      Auspices - Every werewolf is born under one of five symbolic moon phases. After they first change into a werewolf, this will dictate their role in werewolf society; while highly frowned upon a character can change their Auspice using a special Rite. Auspice directly influences: starting Rage and gaining temporary Rage, Frenzy difficulties, XP cost of Gifts, Renown/Rank.

                      Breed - Every werewolf is born appearing to be one of three things (human - Homid, wolf - Lupus, werewolf - Metis), while a Garou is metaphysically a werewolf from birth (Homids and Lupus appear to be kinfolk of their birth types though), they do not gain full access to the abilities of a werewolf until the have their first change from their birth state. Breed directly influences: starting Gnosis, Xp cost of Gifts, Lupus only: restricted Ability selection at creation, Metis only: must select a Deformity.

                      Tribe - Most werewolves join one of the Tribes. There are 13 PCs oriented Tribes that are allied as the Garou Nation, 1 antagonist Tribe called the Black Spiral Dancers, and 3 extinct Tribes (one of which became the BSDs). Most werewolves join the Tribe their family is affiliated with, though some Tribes reject members over certain issues, and some Tribes are very open about taking in any werewolf (esp. those rejected by the others). Most Tribes are linked strongly to a real world culture/group of cultures/lifestyle and have breed with members of those groups for generations filling those groups with kinfolk. Tribe directly influences: starting Willpower, XP cost of Gifts, Background selection (some Backgrounds are only limited at character creation, while others are a permanent restriction for members of the Tribe), some Tribes have additional restrictions (ex: Red Talons do not accept Homid Breed characters into the Tribe).

                      Kinfolk - human and wolf relatives of werewolves. Usually long time families that have been cultivated by werewolves, since kinfolk increase the odds of werewolves being born compared to normal humans and wolves. Kinfolk are resistant to the negative effects of Rage, and immune to Delerium. Human kinfolk are frequently the eyes and ears of werewolves because they have an easier time blending in with human society, though they are also second-class citizens in werewolf society and sometimes treated as little more than breeding stock. Usually NPCs, there are rules for playing Kinfolk with widgets that give them access to things that can make them feel viable in a mixed game.

                      Rage - Rage is a measure of a werewolf's supernatural fury. It has a permanent rating in dots, and a temporary rating in points. Temporary Rage can exceed permanent Rage without special circumstances. Temporary Rage can be spent on a number of supernatural effects both innate (ex: gaining extra actions in combat) and learned (ex: Gifts). Rage is rolled (the higher of temporary or permanent) for a few positive and negative things. Rage also has a number of additional drawbacks that depends on a few factors which can make social interactions impossible for them if their Rage grows out of control.

                      Gnosis - Gnosis is a measure of w werewolf's spiritual connection to the world Like Rage it has permanent and temporary ratings, but temporary Gnosis cannot normally exceed permanent Gnosis. Gnosis is rolled or spent for a number of innate and learned powers, as well as acting on a limit on certain things (such as carrying silver weapons). Gnosis does not have the drawbacks of Rage, but is significantly harder to regain. As a side note Rage and Gnosis cannot normally be spent on the same turn.

                      Renown - Renown is a measure of a werewolf's accomplishments. It also comes in temporary and permanent ratings. As werewolves perform deeds of note, they gain temporary Renown, and as the fail to live up to the standards of their society they lose it. If a werewolf has 10 temporary Renown they can seek to convert it into 1 permanent Renown; which usually spreads stories of the werewolf's deeds as a narrative device. Each Auspice dictates how many permanent dots in each category of Renown is required to qualify for a new Rank.

                      Rank - Rank is a werewolf's status within werewolf society governed by Auspice and Renown. As werewolves gain Rank, they gain fame, position, duties, and so on. Mechanically Rank influences some werewolf interactions, at high level can influence Frenzy mechanics, and unlocks new Gifts. Standard Ranks are gained by finding a member of that Rank and being given a challenge to prove your worth. The "sixth" Rank is only gained by being such a luminary and exemplar of your kind that everyone acknowledges you as a living legend.

                      Backgrounds - Backgrounds generally work the same for werewolves, though they don't have access to vampire specific ones, and have many of their own unique ones. The Totem Background is a notable exception to normal Background rules.

                      Packs - Packs are an essential part of werewolf society. Unlike vampire coteries which are matters of political mutual advantage, werewolves have a natural drive to form tight knit social groups. While ideally they will find life long packs, frequently they will be placed into temporary packs for training or specific missions until they find a long term pack of their own.

                      Septs - The next step up from a pack in werewolf society, as Sept is a large collection of werewolves that control a territory. Septs are almost always formed around a Caern - a sacred holy site - which they guard with fanatical devotion. Septs organize packs and kinfolk, provide larger scale hierarchy, settle disputes, and provide training and spiritual resources.

                      Totems - The most important kind of spirit to the daily lives of most werewolves, Totem spirits are patrons to werewolf organizations. The three most important are the Tribal Totems (powerful god-like entities that dictate the nature of their Tribe), Caern Totems (power level linked to the power of the Caern they inhabit, set the tone of the Sept), and Pack Totems (relatively weak spirits that can grow in power with the Pack via the Totem Background, these bond packs together on a spiritual level for a number of general benefits, and specific benefits by the Totem)

                      Gifts - This are the core "learned" powers of werewolves. Gifts are usually "taught" by spirits in a process of spiritual enlightenment (hence seen as gifts from the spirits), but can be learned in other ways. Characters cannot purchase a Gift with a level that exceeds their Rank. So a Rank 2 werewolf can only learn level 1 and level 2 Gifts. Gifts, unlike Disciplines, are all unique powers instead of a chain of powers learned by buying up a specific trait. Gifts are organized by what group gets an XP break on learn those Gifts. So Homid Gifts are all Gifts that are cheaper for Homids to learn than Lupus and Metis. Some Gifts are on multiple lists, and you only need to have it once to get the XP break (so if a Gift is a Homid Gift, and a Ragabash Gift, any Homid gets the cheap price, and any Ragabash gets the cheap price, though you don't get double cheap for being both). Gifts are hard to summarize because they take so many forms.

                      Rites - A secondary power, Rites are mystic rituals werewolves can learn that call on ancient pacts because the werewolves and the spirits to enact various effects. Rites are important to all werewolves, even if certain Auspices tend to specialize in them more than others, as many rites are important to maintaining werewolf society in addition to any mechanical effect.

                      Fetishes/Talens - The last standard form of power for werewolves, these are items with a spirit bound into it (permanently for a Fetish, temporarily for a Talen). These create magical items to all sorts of ends. Klaives are a socially special Fetish that's a silver blade is turned into an incredibly potent weapon of war and carrying own is a major honor/responsibility.

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                      • #12
                        I'm currently working on a character sheet, is there a limited number of freebie points, or does it work much the same as it does in V20?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
                          I'm currently working on a character sheet, is there a limited number of freebie points, or does it work much the same as it does in V20?

                          There is Freebie Points. The point buy costs are on the Character Creation Overview.


                          Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

                          The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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                          • #14
                            Is there a number I should work with? The site I usually play on, set the number at 45.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
                              Is there a number I should work with? The site I usually play on, set the number at 45.
                              Depends on the kind of game you're playing. From the sounds of it, those games were about vampires with several decades at least under their belt. The default freebie points of WtA (15pts) is for characters that have gone through their First Change, been picked up by tribe and recently completed their Rite of Passage, much as the defaults of VtM is set for characters that have been turned within the last decade and have learned the basics of Kindred existence and society.


                              Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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