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  • Garou Metis Populations

    I was curious what proportion of the Garou population are Metis in your games? I tend to run Metis as being uncommon within the Garou Nation, with the majority of the Metis falling to the Black Spiral Dancers, becoming Ronin, or committing suicide because of the rejection that they suffer from their peers. In addition, I think that female Garou who get pregnant will go to Human Kinfolk doctors or veterinarians for ultrasounds and, if the embryo is malformed, will abort the embryo long before the true nature of the embryo could be determined, which means that the majority of Metis embryos are aborted long before anyone realizes that they are Garou because their Crinos form will appear to be a malformation in the early stages of pregnancy. With all of that under consideration, Metis make up around 1% of the Garou Nation in my games (though the proportion was probably closer to 4% before the advent of effective surgical abortion procedures).

  • #2
    The Sept in my quest has three Metis (two living, one dead) in recent history. All of them have emigrated to the Sept for various reasons.

    It's a Get of Fenrir Sept, so all the metis had "tolerable" defects. Defects that would not inhibit thier ability to fight. One is deaf, but he knows sign language and can speak to a limited degree. One is austic, but he can still kill banes. The dead metis had a custom flaw related to Giantism. She has all sort of skeletonal and joint issues, but she hid it well.

    Note, I didn't use any math to decide how many Metis. I just created them for the needs of the story.
    Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-24-2017, 05:55 PM.


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    • #3
      I also have the Metis population at Glasswalker Sept in Los Angeles plummet since the 70s. Of course this is because the Glasswalkers are so good at keeping to the litany and nothing to do with easy access to abortion.


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      • #4
        I likewise have no distinct "math" to it. I try to use relative population of Metis to reflect the politics of a given Sept/Tribal presence. And that's not just the obvious things (CoGs and BGs have more, etc.). What does it say about a Fianna and Silver Fang dominated Sept that has a lot more Metis around than you'd expect for such traditionalist Tribes? Is this is a sign of a more progressive than average group of them, or is there something else going on? It's a very easy way to mess with expectations and thus create a sense of interest for the players in something to dig into.

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        • #5
          I also just make up whatever numbers I need for any given game/Sept/story.

          Purely from a thought experiment point of view though, I guess I could ration the breeds out. Homids generally make up 75-87% of the modern Garou population depending on which books you use (I think 7/8 is the most recent ratio). I prefer a slightly larger Lupus population so I'd maybe to go with 80% Homids. The remaining 20% I would maybe split 13/7%s Lupus and Metis. This is overall though and those percentages will vary a lot Tribe to Tribe.

          So over the entire Garou Nation (modern nights), Metis make up a bit less than 10% of the population.

          I used to use a 67/25/8 spread until I revised that a while back due to looking at newer numbers from a few different books.
          Last edited by idpersona; 02-24-2017, 09:18 PM.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
            One is austic, but he can still kill banes.
            Really????

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post

              Really????
              Wow. I missed that. That is more than a bit screwed up.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by idpersona View Post

                Wow. I missed that. That is more than a bit screwed up.
                Shit. Did I do something horrible? I haven't introduced the character yet, so I can remove him if it is offensive.

                So this is the idea behind the character: he lives at the Caern and never really leaves. He is not Asperger's, but on the other end of the spectrum. He does not talk, nor has much interest in the rites of the Sept. He can hunt for himself. His old Sept had written him off, but the Get were like, "the kid can kill banes and we got a kinfolk who has worked with another metis with good results", so they took him back to thier Sept.

                It's not an idea situation, but this metis had very few options.
                Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-24-2017, 09:41 PM.


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                • #9
                  I would not allow autistic as a Metis Deformity because it does not physically mark them as a violation of the Litany. If you want a few more options for Metis, look up exotic genetic disorders. For example, FOP (Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva) is a genetic disorder that transforms connective tissue into bone when it is damage. As a Metis Deformity, it would cause the Metis to reduce the results of their soak rolls by one success for every '1' that they rolled and, on a botch, they suffer one health level of unsoakable aggravated damage.
                  Last edited by Aya Tari; 02-24-2017, 09:49 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I was unaware metis had to have a physical deformity. I just assumed it has to be some sort of a defect you could be born with. Though no one has figured out where it comes from, austim develops at a later age.

                    I'll drop the character. Thanks for helping me avoid a land mine.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                      Shit. Did I do something horrible? I haven't introduced the character yet, so I can remove him if it is offensive.
                      Not horrible per se (from my perspective), but it does come off as more than a bit offensive. I wouldn't put autism on the Metis deformities list. Not because it isn't physical (as Aya Tari seems to indicate) but because autistic people aren't "deformed".

                      Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                      So this is the idea behind the character: he lives at the Caern and never really leaves. He is not Asperger's, but on the other end of the spectrum. He does not talk, nor has much interest in the rites of the Sept. He can hunt for himself. His old Sept had written him off, but the Get were like, "the kid can kill banes and we got a kinfolk who has worked with another metis with good results", so they took him back to thier Sept.

                      It's not an idea situation, but this metis had very few options.
                      You can accomplish that character idea without attributing his deformity to autism. All you seem to need from the character is self sufficient recluse. You could have his deformity be something along the lines of physical brain damage (actual sections missing possibly). Maybe he has Wolf intelligence, akin to pre-change Lupus characters and his intelligence never progressed much beyond base animal intellect (and I'm not looking to argue kinfolk intelligence Aya ). These would both accomplish the character arc you seem to be going for without equating autism to deformity.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                        I was unaware metis had to have a physical deformity. I just assumed it has to be some sort of a defect you could be born with.
                        They don't. I've had some interesting supernatural Metis "deformities" before. And some mental flaws have been said to be available on the list, but I do generally try to avoid real world mental conditions/"illnesses" since they could hit too close to home for some people, me included.

                        Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                        I'll drop the character. Thanks for helping me avoid a land mine.
                        You don't need to drop the whole character. Just switch to something less questionable.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by idpersona View Post
                          Not horrible per se (from my perspective), but it does come off as more than a bit offensive. I wouldn't put autism on the Metis deformities list. Not because it isn't physical (as Aya Tari seems to indicate) but because autistic people aren't "deformed".


                          You can accomplish that character idea without attributing his deformity to autism. All you seem to need from the character is self sufficient recluse. You could have his deformity be something along the lines of physical brain damage (actual sections missing possibly). Maybe he has Wolf intelligence, akin to pre-change Lupus characters and his intelligence never progressed much beyond base animal intellect (and I'm not looking to argue kinfolk intelligence Aya ). These would both accomplish the character arc you seem to be going for without equating autism to deformity.
                          Ah! I understand now. Now I feel like an asshole. Oh well, you live and learn.

                          Thanks for your help.


                          Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

                          The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                            Ah! I understand now. Now I feel like an asshole. Oh well, you live and learn.

                            Thanks for your help.
                            Of course. It's a matter of perspective, and your group very well may have not given it a second thought. But (imo) it's best to avoid the chance of offending people if it's something easy to switch. I've more than 1 friend on the autism scale, and I could see them being unhappy if I put a character like that in the game.

                            For what it counts (and it's not like my random internet opinion matters), I really like that you are willing to switch it out. It shows that it didn't really occur to you that the concept might be offensive.
                            Last edited by idpersona; 02-24-2017, 10:05 PM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by idpersona View Post
                              They don't. I've had some interesting supernatural Metis "deformities" before. And some mental flaws have been said to be available on the list, but I do generally try to avoid real world mental conditions/"illnesses" since they could hit too close to home for some people, me included.
                              I tend to use real life Conditions because there is a lot of research to be found on it. Deaf is a real life condition, with an entire rich culture. Similar to using real life cultures, there is a fine line one needs to walk to avoid offense. I did a lot of research on Austim, yet I didn't consider the neuro diversity aspect. I should have known better as I have ADD, another controversial condition.


                              Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

                              The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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