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Is there a Sept Position for this Ragabash?

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  • Is there a Sept Position for this Ragabash?

    In my quest game, I have this Glasswalker Ragabash whose job is to protect the Get of Fenrir Sept from Bureaucratic Threats from Pentex subsidiaries and Wyrm Corrupted politicians. The Sept used to send Kinfolk, but they had this annoying habit of having "accidents" while away. The Ragabash is much harder to kill.

    The Ragabash drives to the State Capital, about an hour and an half from the Sept during Legislative Session and lobbies for the Sept's Interests. He uses a combination of Computer Hacking, Black Mail, Bribery, and some old fashion strong arming to get shit done. The State representative for the Sept's area goes in fear of the Ragabash. He knows nothing of Garou and isn't even Kinfolk, but he knows he better keep his biggest and scariest donor happy.

    Now, my issue is that in my mind this Glasswalker is Adren Rank, but that requires a Sept position. Yet, none of the Sept positions fit what the Ragabash does. Wyrmfoe is close, but the Glasswalker's actions are more defensive than offensive. Caern Warder is also close, but most of the Glasswalker's duties take him so far from the Sept itself. Should I just create a new position for him?

    ((Yes, I could always go with the "The Get don't consider what the Glasswalker does important or dangerous to be recognized." Yet, the Sept Alpha does consider it important and frankly the Alpha knows he rather kill ten thousand bans than brave the city and politicians.))


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  • #2
    Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
    Now, my issue is that in my mind this Glasswalker is Adren Rank, but that requires a Sept position.
    Why?
    Plenty of Rank 3+ Garou don't have Sept positions. Especially in the larger Caerns.

    You can be respected in the Sept without holding an official title. That's pretty much what normal Garou Rank is for.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by idpersona View Post
      Why?
      Plenty of Rank 3+ Garou don't have Sept positions. Especially in the larger Caerns.

      You can be respected in the Sept without holding an official title. That's pretty much what normal Garou Rank is for.

      I thought you had to have one. Or was it "Most Rank 3 Garou have Sept Positions?"


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      • #4
        Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
        I thought you had to have one. Or was it "Most Rank 3 Garou have Sept Positions?"
        Eh. Neither really? It depends on the size of the Sept. Smaller Caerns tend to fill spots with lower and lower Rank Garou.

        In level 4 or 5 Caerns, it would be uncommon at best to find Rank 3 Garou filling any major position. But in a Level 1 or 2 Caern, those Rank 3 Garou start looking pretty experienced in comparison.
        But certainly Sept positions aren't going to be made up so a Garou of a certain Rank can have a title. "Arden" is fine for addressing this Ragabash. That in and of itself is a title (and worthy or respect).

        So what level Caern are you working with?

        Also keep in mind that not all Sept positions are necessary. Especially when it comes to the non major positions (like Wyrmfoe), you might not even have a Garou who holds that title.


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        • #5
          It's a Level 2 Caern. Small but with a large kinfolk (~2,000) population attached to it. It was a higher level Caern in the past, but Mages depleted it in the 1800s.

          All the Caern positions are filled with Rank 3 and 2. The Sept Alpha is Rank 3. A Rank 4 Lupus CoG Philodox is Truthcatcher and acts as adviser to Alpha when the Athro isn't traveling. About a year ago, the Caern was attacked by BSDs. A good third of their Garou died in the attack.
          Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-27-2017, 05:51 PM.


          Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

          The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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          • #6
            How many Garou do you have in the entire Sept?

            With such a small Caern it'd be surprising if a Rank 3 Garou didn't hold some sort of position. But again, it isn't actually necessary. If there isn't one you think the Ragabash would already hold, then don't worry too much about it.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by idpersona View Post
              How many Garou do you have in the entire Sept?

              With such a small Caern it'd be surprising if a Rank 3 Garou didn't hold some sort of position. But again, it isn't actually necessary. If there isn't one you think the Ragabash would already hold, then don't worry too much about it.

              Not including the Cubs, there are Six (maybe seven) Garou organized into two packs. Four Garou died in the BSD attack.

              I think that is my issue. The Sept is so depleted, he should be in some position. I may make him Caern Warder , though he isn't suited for it. (The Glasswalker is a city boy, but the sept is very much rural.)
              Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-27-2017, 05:52 PM.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                Not including the Cubs, there are Six (maybe seven) Garou organized into two packs. Four Garou died in the BSD attack.

                I think that is my issue. The Sept is so depleted, he should be in some position. I may make him Caern Warder, though he isn't suited for it. (The Glasswalker is a city boy, but the sept is very much rural.)
                That sounds about right for such a small Caern though. It's a running theme in Werewolf to not have enough warriors. I'm paraphrasing, but I seem to remember the line: "think of how many Garou you need to be comfortable and half it."

                That being said, Caern Warder sounds like a bad position for him to fill. The Caern Warder is about the only position (generally, in my view) required to be on the Caern full time. And he runs off the Caern fairly regularly it sounds like. Master of the Challenge might fit better if you don't have someone already have someone slotted for it.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by idpersona View Post
                  That sounds about right for such a small Caern though. It's a running theme in Werewolf to not have enough warriors. I'm paraphrasing, but I seem to remember the line: "think of how many Garou you need to be comfortable and half it."

                  That being said, Caern Warder sounds like a bad position for him to fill. The Caern Warder is about the only position (generally, in my view) required to be on the Caern full time. And he runs off the Caern fairly regularly it sounds like. Master of the Challenge might fit better if you don't have someone already have someone slotted for it.
                  Yeah. That is the idea. Lots of dead Garou. "Well, So and So used to be Caern Warder, but he died." I want to hammer home, the Garou are at war and most die before Rank 3.

                  Master of Challenge would work. I didn't have any solid plans for that position.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                    Yeah. That is the idea. Lots of dead Garou. "Well, So and So used to be Caern Warder, but he died." I want to hammer home, the Garou are at war and most die before Rank 3.
                    That sounds pretty perfect. I usually push that theme in Werewolf games I've ran too.
                    Most Garou should be Rank 1-2 (a while back I had worked out a spread for how many of each Rank Garou there were throughout the Nation). Getting higher than that really is an accomplishment. And by Rank 3, you'll mostly have seen a few packmates killed.
                    All in all, it really is kind of tragic.

                    Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                    Master of Challenge would work. I didn't have any solid plans for that position.
                    I like having a Ragabash Master of the Challenge since they're supposed to think unconventionally.


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                    • #11
                      If he is working towards the legal managing of the place the caern occupies, i suggest keeper of the land.

                      It would be a very unorthodox one and he would need to start talking with spirits too or just being the best the sept can get.

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                      • #12
                        If you really need to give him a position, make him a Guardian. Or just make up a job title and award him the position. People do that sometimes.

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                        • #13
                          Keeper of the land is pretty good one too. There is no reason why the Ragabash couldn't learn Spirit Speech.

                          The Current Rank Structure of the Sept:

                          The Living
                          Athro: 1 (Philodox)
                          Adren: 3 (Arhoun, Galliard, Ragabash)
                          Fostern: 2 (Thurge, Arhoun)
                          Cliath: 0 (They all either died or were promoted to Fostern after the BSD attack)
                          Cubs: 4 (Auspices yet to be determined)

                          The Dead
                          Athro: 1 (Ragabash- Old Sept Alpha. He performed the rite of Winter Wolf due to injuries and probably depression from losing so many Garou.)
                          Fostern: 1 (Thuerge - Old Rite Master)
                          Cliath: 3 (Philodox, Galliard, Ahroun)
                          Last edited by wonderandawe; 02-28-2017, 10:41 AM.


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                          The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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                          • #14
                            Well, Garou life expectancy seems to average 25 years after the First Change, so 3/4 will be younger than 25 and 1/4 will be older than 25. Rank 1 should be more than 36%, Rank 2 28%, Rank 3 20%, Rank 4 12%, and Rank 5 4%.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
                              Keeper of the land is pretty good one too. There is no reason why the Ragabash couldn't learn Spirit Speech.

                              The Current Rank Structure of the Sept:

                              The Living
                              Athro: 1 (Philodox)
                              Adren: 3 (Arhoun, Galliard, Ragabash)
                              Fostern: 2 (Thurge, Arhoun)
                              Cliath: 0 (They all either died or were promoted to Fostern after the BSD attack)
                              Cubs: 4 (Auspices yet to be determined)

                              The Dead
                              Athro: 1 (Ragabash- Old Sept Alpha. He performed the rite of Winter Wolf due to injuries and probably depression from losing so many Garou.)
                              Fostern: 1 (Thuerge - Old Rite Master)
                              Cliath: 3 (Philodox, Galliard, Ahroun)
                              And so at this point in your story, which Caern positions does each Garou hold, and which ones are open?

                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              Well, Garou life expectancy seems to average 25 years after the First Change, so 3/4 will be younger than 25 and 1/4 will be older than 25. Rank 1 should be more than 36%, Rank 2 28%, Rank 3 20%, Rank 4 12%, and Rank 5 4%.
                              I'm curious if these numbers are based on anything or if they are your own extrapolation?
                              I ended up with a much higher attrition rate than you are using (average life expectancy being 35-40ish seems really high to me).


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