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Thoughts on future werewolf 5ed by looking at the BNS book

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  • Originally posted by CeltSPZ View Post
    Oh, hit the wrong quote! I was actually trying to quote the line about tribe popularity impacting who got tune ups and who ended up worse...if LARP popularity was why i'd be epically disappointed
    Well, regardless, it is pretty bad. I haven't checked the Wendigo section well, but hopefully they got out luckier. Stargazer section is kinda ugh, though.


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    • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

      I'd wager it has a lot more to do with the popularity of the Tribes in the bigger LARP communities. Lupus and the Red Talons in particular tend to be poorly regarded in a lot of LARPs I've seen, and I wouldn't be surprised if that mentality went into making the Talons worse for playing in BNS WtA.
      Mine is only one perspective but in my experiences Red Talons have been one of the more popular tribes in LARP, to the point that they're usually restricted because more people want to play them than can necessarily really RP Lupus well.

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      • Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
        ...more people want to play them than can necessarily really RP Lupus well.
        Honestly, I find this to be the flip side of the same coin. The mentality that you have to RP "so well" to be allowed to play a Lupus (as if that's the only kind of Garou that can be very tough to RP well), is just a nice way of looking down on most Lupus characters.

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        • Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
          Mine is only one perspective but in my experiences Red Talons have been one of the more popular tribes in LARP, to the point that they're usually restricted because more people want to play them than can necessarily really RP Lupus well.
          I've seen the same thing but most of the players that take them is because of the gift/gnosis spread or because they a huge furries. (Not that there is anything wrong with that)
          Last edited by BurritoMage; 03-13-2017, 10:10 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

            Honestly, I find this to be the flip side of the same coin. The mentality that you have to RP "so well" to be allowed to play a Lupus (as if that's the only kind of Garou that can be very tough to RP well), is just a nice way of looking down on most Lupus characters.
            I can see what you're saying, but I would say the overall mentality is not as much an objection to Lupus specifically but objection to Lupus being portrayed poorly. Any Lupus concept tends to be met with greater scrutiny than a Homid concept, and as Red Talons are all Lupus that means that Red Talons as a Tribe tend to have more road blocks in the way of playing them. Though as I mentioned before this hasn't put any visible damper on their popularity.

            Regardless of the reasoning though I would say that you are correct in that the net effect is discouraging Lupus and Red Talon concepts in LARP.

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            • Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post

              I've seen the same thing but most of the players that take them is because of the gift/gnosis spread or because they a huge furries. (Not that there is anything wrong with that)
              Gifts and Gnosis definitely help. The main thing in the groups I've played in has been a desire to play what they perceived as the most hardline Tribe, as a lot of werewolf LARPers I've known tend to be really into Garou's various neoprimitive schticks.

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              • So, I read through Uktena, Wendigo and Ajaba sections. Ajaba too have begun to have a completely non-matriarchal culture, Wendigo have become more open minded but also more extreme (though I LOVE the new Weakness).

                Generally, what I am getting from these splat sections, is how the changes were made. If it was something that a socially aware person would want to be changed, it was. If it was something incorrect, making the tribe more fun to play, it wasn't. At times they even made things -worse-, such as with Red Talons.

                To me, the MET changes are very surface level, not really delving deep enough to actually fix issues that plagued the setting for a while.


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                • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
                  So, I read through Uktena, Wendigo and Ajaba sections. Ajaba too have begun to have a completely non-matriarchal culture.
                  That reminds me of when they were first written.

                  [/damning implications]

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                  • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    That reminds me of when they were first written.

                    [/damning implications]
                    What really bothers me with it, is that it and the Valkyrie thing in addition of the Furies kinda confirms to me that they most likely just wanted an excuse for guys to play Furies/Valkyrie/ajaba.


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                    • To add something to the Fury discussion: the Furies are in part about fighting the Patriarchy, in part about empowering women, in part about protecting the helpless and vindicating the oppressed and in part about a lot of other things, but that was never the whole of the Tribe.
                      It could be clearer in the Core (go read the Revised Tribebook, it's awesome), but Furies are a mystical cult tied to living femininity as an aspect of Gaia. Living, not venerating. They don't need to accept males because they can understand women or because they speak up about women, they need to accept women who know what it is to be a woman. Yes, the Metis thing still makes little sense in this context but the source itself admits it.
                      Furies do not hold egalitarian beliefs and are feminists only in the loosest sense. Males and females each have their distinct characteristics and purposes and one of these characteristics is an invitation to the clubhouse.

                      So there's really no problem about accepting transexual or transvestites if Pegasus wills it (spirits do change, even Incarna and especially to reflect the beliefs of their worshipers) but whatever your definition of male is, the matter of including them in context is a little more complicated than "they started accepting allies because 2017." It's a pretty heavy paradigm shift that should be properly addressed as such.

                      The birth rate thing, by the way, is bullshit. Furies always birthed as many males as females. They just gave them up for adoption or, well, "gave them up for adoption".

                      Edited to add to the Revised comment: It almost seems like this incarnation of the Furies ignored the culture written up for them in Revised to build upon the material in the first Tribebook.
                      Last edited by Vidyaraja; 04-04-2017, 07:28 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Vidyaraja View Post
                        To add something to the Fury discussion: the Furies are in part about fighting the Patriarchy, in part about empowering women, in part about protecting the helpless and vindicating the oppressed and in part about a lot of other things, but that was never the whole of the Tribe.
                        It could be clearer in the Core (go read the Revised Tribebook, it's awesome), but Furies are a mystical cult tied to living femininity as an aspect of Gaia. Living, not venerating. They don't need to accept males because they can understand women or because they speak up about women, they need to accept women who know what it is to be a woman. Yes, the Metis thing still makes little sense in this context but the source itself admits it.
                        Furies do not hold egalitarian beliefs and are feminists only in the loosest sense. Males and females each have their distinct characteristics and purposes and one of these characteristics is an invitation to the clubhouse.

                        So there's really no problem about accepting transexual or transvestites if Pegasus wills it (spirits do change, even Incarna and especially to reflect the beliefs of their worshipers) but whatever your definition of male is, the matter of including them in context is a little more complicated than "they started accepting allies because 2017." It's a pretty heavy paradigm shift that should be properly addressed as such.

                        The birth rate thing, by the way, is bullshit. Furies always birthed as many males as females. They just gave them up for adoption or, well, "gave them up for adoption".

                        Edited to add to the Revised comment: It almost seems like this incarnation of the Furies ignored the culture written up for them in Revised to build upon the material in the first Tribebook.
                        Yeah, good point.

                        The Valkyria among Fenrir allowing men is pretty bullshit. One day, a gay fenrir and his kin boyfriend wanted to be part of the camp (because?) and challenged for it and won. What that has to do with combating prejudices towards women in the tribe is up in the air.


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