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What would YOU change in the W:tA setting?

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  • Jonas'd work if you get rid of everything he stands for. Make him the standard silver fang, the story of his exile and silver crown is fine, but his radical deviation from silver fang norms is the kind of stuff that'd have even the more moderate fangs against him, let alone the extreme groups like raptors who'd have him dead. This needs to be cut out. His pack would be at least half-silver fang and the ones who aren't would have great loyalty to the tribe. He needs to stop flouting traditions and he needs to put his tribe before himself.

    His intellegence and manipulation needs a boost, or I'd rule him as a puppet for someone better. I often joke that pure breed'll hide your very obvious flaws, but among other silver fangs who've all got the same crutch it's really less relevant to letting you rule.


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    • Originally posted by PewPew View Post
      Jonas'd work if you get rid of everything he stands for. Make him the standard silver fang, the story of his exile and silver crown is fine, but his radical deviation from silver fang norms is the kind of stuff that'd have even the more moderate fangs against him, let alone the extreme groups like raptors who'd have him dead. This needs to be cut out. His pack would be at least half-silver fang and the ones who aren't would have great loyalty to the tribe. He needs to stop flouting traditions and he needs to put his tribe before himself.

      His intellegence and manipulation needs a boost, or I'd rule him as a puppet for someone better. I often joke that pure breed'll hide your very obvious flaws, but among other silver fangs who've all got the same crutch it's really less relevant to letting you rule.
      I'm not so sure about other fangs being against him. I mean, more hardline folks might, but given Jonas spent years near Sept of the Green just floundering about, he was not under any raptor threat or really much of a concern to the tribe. Plus, the Fangs are far from a monolith that has the numbers to take out stragglers like him. They'd rather focus on their own sept and house politics and give much a shit about one anruth that was exiled anyway.

      Besides, he wasn't in the area of the most hardline of houses and his grandfather was going steadily senile, thus there would be even less of an incentive for Jonas to be killed.


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      • Janos is supposed to represent the resurgence of the Silverfangs rising to the challenge of the times rather that sitting on the laurels of their fathers and trying to lord it over the other tribes (BE Leaders instead of simply shouting a lot about your title and heritage, a mistake Janos himself makes a couple of times, but also realizes it) and the Silverfangs trying to be a bit different too to how they are seen and have been. The pack does have a name, it's simply "Albrecht's Pack" and it's totem is Falcon, they are also quite a good example of a Questing Pack with Ranked members dealing with their actions and deeds over the span of years. They operated quite solidly together in the intro comic info, a few side tales and the whole Sixth Generation thing and also during the Silver Crown and only afterwards did Evan focus more on the Native Wendigo thing, Mari went back to doing her thing in New York and helping out with the Sept of the Green and Albrecht of course was being King.

        I think the entire point of Albrecht's Pack is that they are supposed to look and feel more like a Player Character pack rather than an NPC pack that all comes from one Tribe (in fact Multitribal septs and packs are supposed to be more the norm as the red star glows).

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        • Originally posted by Moirdryd View Post
          I think the entire point of Albrecht's Pack is that they are supposed to look and feel more like a Player Character pack rather than an NPC pack that all comes from one Tribe (in fact Multitribal septs and packs are supposed to be more the norm as the red star glows).
          Yes. They were the very original Werewolf "signature characters" back when 2nd ed came out, meant to represent your typical PC pack. (Originally it was just the three of them and, IIRC, a Stargazer one, before every tribe got one with Revised.) I've heard speculation that Albrecht and Evan started as Bill and John Bridges's playtest characters back when the first edition was being written, but have never found anyone who could confirm that one way or the other. Albrecht's role in Werewolf is essentially the same as Aragorn in Lord of the Rings. the new king rising in the west and all that, bringing hope and a person to rally around in their darkest hour.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • Originally posted by Moirdryd View Post
            Janos is supposed to represent the resurgence of the Silverfangs rising to the challenge of the times rather that sitting on the laurels of their fathers and trying to lord it over the other tribes (BE Leaders instead of simply shouting a lot about your title and heritage, a mistake Janos himself makes a couple of times, but also realizes it) and the Silverfangs trying to be a bit different too to how they are seen and have been. The pack does have a name, it's simply "Albrecht's Pack" and it's totem is Falcon, they are also quite a good example of a Questing Pack with Ranked members dealing with their actions and deeds over the span of years. They operated quite solidly together in the intro comic info, a few side tales and the whole Sixth Generation thing and also during the Silver Crown and only afterwards did Evan focus more on the Native Wendigo thing, Mari went back to doing her thing in New York and helping out with the Sept of the Green and Albrecht of course was being King.

            I think the entire point of Albrecht's Pack is that they are supposed to look and feel more like a Player Character pack rather than an NPC pack that all comes from one Tribe (in fact Multitribal septs and packs are supposed to be more the norm as the red star glows).
            Where was the Falcon totem stated in?


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            • Going on the fact that it's Falcon that interacts with the pack displaying several of the Totem Traits you can buy with Background Points during the comic intro and outro in the 2nd edition book. falcon also shows up in other bits of fiction relating to the pack too. Granted it could just be Falcon interceding because he's a Silverfang etc but given that they are supposed to be an example of a player pack in action then it really looks like Falcon is Totem.

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              • Though it's worth nothing that Albrecht (and a lot of Non-player & ST characters in fact) does not have any BG points IN Totem.

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                • Originally posted by Moirdryd View Post
                  Going on the fact that it's Falcon that interacts with the pack displaying several of the Totem Traits you can buy with Background Points during the comic intro and outro in the 2nd edition book. falcon also shows up in other bits of fiction relating to the pack too. Granted it could just be Falcon interceding because he's a Silverfang etc but given that they are supposed to be an example of a player pack in action then it really looks like Falcon is Totem.
                  Originally posted by Moirdryd View Post
                  Though it's worth nothing that Albrecht (and a lot of Non-player & ST characters in fact) does not have any BG points IN Totem.
                  Could just be Alby being the Chosen One for fangs, at least to me. As sucky as it is, unless there is clear text that Falcon -is- their totem, it to me just falls on Alby having the Crown and being destined for greatness before he got it.

                  There is a reason why the Silver River pack got the spotlight in the revised books, they are a more defined pack that has a name and a totem.


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                  • I like that signature pack as what they are - examples for Player Characters. Filling that role as well as they do however, makes them less viable as NPCs specifically because they're filling roles that could be left open to player characters. That's a major reason I still have the Silver Crown missing at my table - so a PC can be the rightful king, rather than Albrecht.


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                    • My only serious change which is something I personally changed in my own game revolves around side stepping through the gauntlet.

                      I like to insist on a reflective surface to even attempt the feat and I don’t just mean polishing your glaive or a hand mirror but something that’s at least big enough for the garou to pass through. In modern times it means it’s very hard to find something like that in the wild beyond a river, stream or pond. Although if the guanlet is weak enough it’s possible to do this without aid or by accident. Looking sideways is done in a similar way meaning it is possible to look before you jump as it were.

                      I imagine the process as the garou walking or crawling through a mirror and walking out of the same mirror in the version of the umbra for the current location.

                      This major change does change the dynamic to how the game is played. Yes the umbra becomes a more distant realm but it would (in my opinion) stop being a crutch for the group to lean on. It’s more interesting to me when the various are not constantly looking sideways and jumps sideways to do a drive by clawing of spirits before running off.
                      Last edited by Cptmachine; 02-18-2018, 06:33 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Cptmachine View Post
                        My only serious change which is something I personally changed in my own game revolves around side stepping through the gauntlet.

                        I like to insist on a reflective surface to even attempt the feat and I don’t just mean polishing your glaive or a hand mirror but something that’s at least big enough for the garou to pass through. In modern times it means it’s very hard to find something like that in the wild beyond a river, stream or pond. Although if the guanlet is weak enough it’s possible to do this without aid or by accident. Looking sideways is done in a similar way meaning it is possible to look before you jump as it were.

                        I imagine the process as the garou walking or crawling through a mirror and walking out of the same mirror in the version of the umbra for the current location.

                        This major change does change the dynamic to how the game is played. Yes the umbra becomes a more distant realm but it would (in my opinion) stop being a crutch for the group to lean on. It’s more interesting to me when the various are not constantly looking sideways and jumps sideways to do a drive by clawing of spirits before running off.

                        That's interesting! I might try that. I'm inclined to make an exception for stepping sideways in Caerns.


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                        • 1) More Protectorates, fewer actual Caerns. Not everyplace has to be magical to be considered 'home' and worth protecting.

                          ​2) Less War of Rage, more.. big predators living too close together and competing for resources. The missing Breeds didn't die out over the course of a few years, but over the course of centuries.

                          ​3) More focus on Kinfolk doing Kinfolk things, less Garou (or other breeds) in boardrooms. (This includes Path Dancer Uktena being mostly about protecting human/kin shamans than learning it themselves).

                          4
                          ) The Garou Nation being less monolithic, and more locally inclined.

                          ​5) Less 'Noble Savage' myth. War and Misery were not Eurpean inventions.

                          ​6) Kill the Bubasti and Ceilican completely, move them over to being small wildcats of Eurasia and Africa and spreading quickly. This is precipitated by a (PC led) ritual killing of the last of the ghouled Kyphur the Settites keep. The Ritual cleanses the growing taint, freeing the Bubasti of the flaw of becoming tainted as they learn human magic (which as per 3, would be mostly Kin). True to the prophecy.. the Bubasti are no longer in Egypt. The new Tribe comes rushing in to give the Settites headaches. Plot hooks for Wheel of Ptah.

                          ​7) Yava become less actual weaknesses, and more of a 'true name' fragment

                          ​8) Handle Ligon (and other mixed breed Bastet) metis

                          ​9) Watch for spots where flavor text isn't being supported by mechanics. (IE Simba ties to the Sun vs Kahn ties, Simba heavy on flavor, but Kahn have the Yava and lower level on Fire Roar... when Roaring and Fire are a Simba thing.)

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                          • Originally posted by EvilTyger View Post
                            ​2) Less War of Rage, more.. big predators living too close together and competing for resources. The missing Breeds didn't die out over the course of a few years, but over the course of centuries.

                            ​3) More focus on Kinfolk doing Kinfolk things, less Garou (or other breeds) in boardrooms. (This includes Path Dancer Uktena being mostly about protecting human/kin shamans than learning it themselves).

                            4) The Garou Nation being less monolithic, and more locally inclined.
                            I like those, and actually think I handle most of these in the way described.

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                            • One thing I'd like to change a lot, is the depiction of wolves as inherently more spiritual than humans. They might see and know there to be more supernatural things than humans, that being a common trope with canines and felines in stories, but stuff like wolves instinctively knowing how to worship (thank you, Changing Ways) and thank Gaia for their prey is a little silly.

                              To me, the noble wolf trope takes away from the fact that the ability to truly go into metaphysics of faith is the strenght and weakness both of humanity. Giving garou, even Red Talons, their ability to respect Gaia beyond what an animal would.


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                              • Something I would change:

                                ​The downfall of the Special Affairs Department. I'd push that up to 2017 and make it an indirect result of the Trump election. Basically Gerald Osbourne was written as being in tight with the old-school Republicans. Have Martin Fiske (the crazy white-nationalist -- and possible Black Spiral Kinfolk) have some sort of nebulous connection to Steve Bannon (who practically screams Wyrm-Taint all by himself), and when Director Comey gets sacked, Osbourne quietly gets swept away as well and with some shadowy machinations, Fiske becomes the new SAD director. Then in a semi-comedic parody of the ongoing sh**-show in the rest of Washington, Fiske promptly implodes under his own personal flavor of crazy/stupid and winds up taking down the rest of the SAD with him.

                                ​EDIT: Oh, and all the vampires are afterwards looking at each other and going: "Did you do that? Who was behind that?", and be convinced that it had to be a Kindred plot of some sort... but it's actually just good old human stupidity.
                                Last edited by Uniform Two Six; 02-21-2018, 06:44 PM.


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