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What would YOU change in the W:tA setting?

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  • Uniform Two Six
    replied
    Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post
    I really like formori and dancers but pentex to me is really no different then Cobra.
    I sort of can empathize with that, but I disagree... Here's why:

    ​1. Pentex is sort of like a cult (Wyrm cults are something that got a much greater focus in the latest Book of the Wyrm -- which I think is also good), only it's a cult with an almost unlimited degree of material resources.

    ​2. It's nigh ubiquitous, and 99% of the people who work for it are largely innocent people who are slowly being Wyrm-tainted simply by working there. It's a Wyrm-taint distribution network for which there is no good way to deal with (particularly given the Garou's skill-set). That gives you the option to run very Sunday-morning-cartoon absurd villain stories if that's the way you want to go, but also opens up the possibility for very involved scenarios where the players have to THINK their way through to the end -- and even more, it provides an antagonist against which there may BE no good solution. That's the very soul of World of Darkness... And you can do either end of the spectrum and everything in between without deviating from canon.

    ​3. One of the recurring themes about WoD is that human greed, apathy, and desire for convenience is a big part of why the world is in spiritual decay. If there isn't a "bad guy" that personifies that, it gets sort of easy to justify shit like the Impergium (as in starting a new one), and shortens the arguments against it. In short, as it stands now, humans are ignorant dupes, unwittingly aiding the "bad guys" simply because they don't know any better. To repeat my earlier point, one of the big problems with Pentex as an adversary (from the Garou perspective) is the moral ambiguity. The people working for it, and the people buying its products and using its services are innocent people who are ultimately Pentex's largest pool of victims. It's very hard for a werewolf to point to a single part of the tapestry and say that THAT'S the bad guy -- or, well, they CAN, but eliminating those one or two people usually doesn't alter the trajectory of the company and doesn't really change anything. Pentex's strength is calculated in the aggregate: The thousands of employees... the millions of customers...
    ​If you get rid of the evil Wyrm-ridden company, and Dow Chemical and Procter and Gamble are just as responsible for the coming Apocalypse as Endron and Magadon were, you lose that. Literally EVERYBODY is as worthy of a werewolf's claws as a fomor is.
    ​And yeah, moral ambiguity is a staple of WoD, but if every single friggin' thing on two legs is an entirely valid target, the morality of the werewolves gets SO ambiguous that morality itself is basically meaningless.

    ​I think that Pentex is what you make of it. If you only portray it as Cobra -- then that's all it ever will be for your players. It can be (and should be) so much more.
    Last edited by Uniform Two Six; 03-03-2017, 03:32 AM.

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  • BurritoMage
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

    Based on a reading of what, exactly?
    W20 book of the wyrm fixed a lot of stuff but just look at the subsidiaries guide. Worse versions of already harmful things? Evil gasoline that pollutes more then regular fuel? Booze? Diet pills?

    I really like formori and dancers but pentex to me is really no different then Cobra.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post

    If I could change anything it would be the antagonists, pentex and the whole lot is just cartoonish evil.
    Based on a reading of what, exactly?

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  • EvilTyger
    replied
    1) Make the 'chosen' actually 'chosen'. Rather than 'born' to a changing breed, selected by the Tribal Totem (or appropriate being for other breeds). The nearest (emotional or physical, depending on the circumstances) compelled to 'bite' the Kin to bring about the change. (This would not be applied to Ratkin or Corax, who already choose.)

    2) Like the Rokea, base animal born changers human form on where they are changing and who they are changing around if they haven't had any human blood in 3 or 4 generations. ("So Easy a Caveman can do it!" got me turned off on the Red Talon thing.)

    3) (Most) Camps are no longer mono-tribal. Valkyries are a combination of mostly Get and Furies, and the Children of Dire are a mix of all Tribes. This would serve to remind players that as insular as the Tribes can be, there is significant overlap in ideals and goals.

    4) Do away with the 'Garou Nation'. not entirely, but as it spreads out, and most refuse to get with modern technology, herding a bunch of willful wolves isn't going to be done from an ivory throne in Russia. It never really seemed to have a huge impact, as there haven't been any decisions that really affected the entirety since the ending of the Impergium.

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  • Fat Larry
    replied
    Those of you who want to get rid of Pentex...shame on you!

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

    Shrug. Maybe it is just where I live, but I have found that the game is kind of a hard sell if you try to spin bestiality as a virtue.
    where do you live? I live in Oklahoma right in the middle of the bible belt.

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  • BurritoMage
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
    I don't know. I see the situation more as nature documentary than strange fetish porn myself.
    Mature games for mature minds....

    If I could change anything it would be the antagonists, pentex and the whole lot is just cartoonish evil.

    Rather then have the wyrm be corrupted and driven insane by the weaver I would add a forth element that predates the trio. Sorta like the darkness from L5R or Leviathan from Armageddon.
    Last edited by BurritoMage; 03-02-2017, 11:34 PM.

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  • wonderandawe
    replied
    If Garou eating wolves is cannibalism, then Garou mating with wolves isn't beastiality.

    Though since Garou can talk to wolves, they can also gain consent from them. And they are not mating with the wolves in homid.

    I don't know. I see the situation more as nature documentary than strange fetish porn myself.

    I'd never force the situation on a player or ST myself. Definately falls under "the Red Rule"
    Last edited by wonderandawe; 03-02-2017, 11:07 PM.

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  • The Laughing Stranger
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post

    I understand your feelings but most emphaticly reject them.
    Shrug. Maybe it is just where I live, but I have found that the game is kind of a hard sell if you try to spin bestiality as a virtue.

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  • WISDOMINCHAINS
    replied
    I would get rid of howling.... (Growling is still cool) and the children of Gaia...

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    It powers up kinfolk in general


    That is both good and ill.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Yes, it would be a major change, but it would give a reason beyond reproduction for Pure Breed to be treasured among the Fera (even the Breeds of Fera or Tribes of Garpu without Pure Breed would treasure it within their Kinfolk). It would become similar to the Fae Blood Background of the Kinain (which caps the maximum Glamour and the maximum Arts and Realms of the Kinain). It would also mean that exceptional Kinfolk with high levels of Pure Breed would be able to become leaders among the Fera, though they would never be war leaders because they would lack the durability and the power of the Fera (they would instead be respected advisors, mystics, and sages). How else do you think that it change things (for better or ill)?

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I would make it easier for Kinfolk to develop Gifts, Gnosis, Rank, and Rites, making them the equivalent for Garou that the Kinain are from Changelings. I would have Kinfolk having a maximum Gnosis and a maximum Rank equal to their Pure Breed Background. While Pure Breed 0 Kinfolk could learn Level 1 Gifts that do not require Gnosis or Willpower at a high cost, Kinfolk with the Pure Breed Background would be able to develop Gnosis and Rank up to their Pure Breed Background as if they were Garou and could learn and use Gifts and Rites with a level equal to or less than their Rank that did not require Rage as if they were Garou. I would also allow Pure Breed of any level for the Kinfolk of any Tribe of Garou or Breed of Fera.


    Thats a... pretty major setting change.

    was about to say it screws over bone gnawers and walkers... but then notice letting anyone have any degree of of pure breed.

    It radically shifts the setting in ways both good and bad.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post



    I will go on record and say I HATE this idea.

    I like the added complications that can come into a family tree, from having an ancestor of the opposite breed.

    I understand your feelings but most emphaticly reject them.
    I agree, I love using stories where humans and animals are literally kin. It is one of the oldest stories of humanity, so it would cheapen the setting to remove it. After all, the entire point of the Fera is the joining of Animal and Human.

    I had a game where a family of Khan Kinfolk were equally Animal and Human, and the family begged every fertile Khan male to lay with every fertile female, Animal or Human, regardless of the breed of the Khan. Since everyone in that Khan Kinfolk family possessed Pure Breed 5 because they had been following that practice for thousands years, they were quite successful in their persuasions. The fact that they also had a large population hidden from the world (1,000 Human Kinfolk and 1,000 Tiger Kinfolk) also did not hurt.

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post
    I'd specify that Homids and Lupus can only breed true with others of their breed. It makes the wolf-lineages of the tribes more critical to preserve, and removes the weird 'fuck a wolf, it's your duty to Gaia!' method of creating Lupus.


    I will go on record and say I HATE this idea.

    I like the added complications that can come into a family tree, from having an ancestor of the opposite breed.

    I understand your feelings but most emphaticly reject them.

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