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What would YOU change in the W:tA setting?

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  • #31
    There is not enough likes for this picture.


    I write things.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

      That's adorable.


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      • #33
        Going back a bit to the original question:

        I would redo the entire history of the setting. Not to remove any specific element, but I feel that one of the biggest problems with the setting is that everything is back filled; which unsurprisingly makes the setting very awkward and nonsensical in too many places.

        I don't need a "true" history of the Garou, but I want something like VtM's Noddist theory that tells a cohesive narrative of how everything started and how everything came to be the way things are now. Even if the end goal is to have something that is 99% what the current state is, I want to create something that feels organic instead of forced.

        For example, why did Tribes happen? For the other Fera, different groups are based on the specific variant of their animal kin and where that variant lives. The Qualmi and Simba are different because of where lynx live compared to where lions live. But (except for the Bunyip) all Garou breed with wolves. Wolves don't respect human borders. How did we get the Fianna and Fenrir develop so close to each other and stay so geographically compact, while the Silver Fangs spread out all over Eurasia as one Tribe?

        From a game design perspective, the game wanted Gaelic bard werewolves, and Nordic viking werewolves, and traditionalist royalty werewolves, etc. but from a world building perspective it's a giant mess in a way that I think distracts from the game.

        -----

        Some other minor things:

        1) I would get rid of "Canis lupus" only. I'd keep out domesticated dogs, but it's a spiritual matter,not a scientific taxonomy one. There's lots of canids out there that work to expand options here.

        2) Rework Fetishes/Talens to be both more common and more special to get away from them just being generic magical items with a spirit power source. I would do this by mixing Fetishes with Personal Totems.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post
          One change I'd make (though maybe this situation already exists) is to have the Black Spiral Dancers and Pentex to be at odds. Pentex knows Garou are a threat and see the BSD as a way to neutralize that threat. However, BSD are...unpredictable and create collateral damage. BSD are difficult to contact and sometimes ignore Pentex's requests for aid. It's like the BSD aren't motivated by money, which Pentex does not understand.
          First off: Neat ideas.

          ​Some BSDs are motivated by money -- and are some of the most (or I should say more) pliant servants. Dancers like Dragon's Wrath and Francesco can intervene if their tribemates get too off-reservation. And lastly, that assumes that its other paranormal servants are somehow less disruptive than the Dancers are (their combat fomori come to mind). For Pentex, chaos absolutely has its place. It's like that line from Operation Petticoat, "...I don't know. He said something about there being 'profit in chaos' and then disappeared with the truck..."
          Originally posted by wonderandawe
          So Pentex would like the "acquire" their own tribe of Garou. Pentex has created a charity arm of their organization to acquire kinfolk groups in the hopes of starting their own tribe. Since they already know about BSD kinfolk groups, they started with those. The BSD keep a looser control on their kin as children of Wyrm tainted parents don't have a high survival rate.
          .
          ​Like "The Fallen" and "The Mockery Breeds"?
          Originally posted by Ana Mizuki
          (awesome picture)
          Must -- resist -- urge -- to -- post -- about -- weredogs...


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          • #35
            Originally posted by Uniform Two Six View Post
            And lastly, that assumes that its other paranormal servants are somehow less disruptive than the Dancers are (their combat fomori come to mind). For Pentex, chaos absolutely has its place. It's like that line from Operation Petticoat, "...I don't know. He said something about there being 'profit in chaos' and then disappeared with the truck..."
            This may be my business school training showing, but I imagine Pentex likes Chaos for other people. But for some operations, it would be nice if things were more ... efficient. Better for the bottom line.

            Originally posted by Uniform Two Six View Post


            ​Like "The Fallen" and "The Mockery Breeds"?
            I didn't realize these were things. I will have to read about them.

            Really I just like the idea of the Wyrm tainted antagonists with as much infighting as the Gaia Garou.
            Last edited by wonderandawe; 03-03-2017, 05:35 PM.


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            • #36
              For tribes, as seen above, I would focus on more the internal conflict and how the tribe deals with it to outsiders. These aren't really rewrites as much as reactions to the setting as it stands.

              I haven't written these in full yet, but for Red Talons and Stargazers, the focus would be realising they leaned too close. I don't feel the same about Glass Walkers, because GWs have always had the edge of a hunter and predator in their humanity. They still are wolves in the city. But Gazers, not as much. Ironically, by seeking balance they have imbalanced themselves by focusing too much on theory and too little on experience. Compare them to Children of Gaia, Furies or Gnawers, for example.

              So Talons start to lose their will to fight a war, frenzies becoming fox frenzy more and more often. There begin to be issues with younger cliath understanding complex orders and how to control their Rage proper. The Talons are losing their human ability to be a tribe in culture and in deed, and the newest cubs are nothing more than wolves with Rage.

              Gazers meanwhile have trouble understanding other garou and fera. How can they fight over scraps, roll in filth and be ignorant of the greater picture? There is so much yet to discover and yet the others simply fight and let their Rage control them. Are they not civilized at all?


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              • #37
                I'd shift things ever-so-slightly to make Pentex feel like something a reasonable person might get behind if they had very different values. You know the discussion between the Onceler and the Lorax in the original cartoon? Yeah, that. Right now it's all very... "screw you, you're killing the planet" (fair point, well made) but there's no "yeah, and if you destroy our factory families will starve and people will commit suicide since they'll never get another job in this economy". It's perfectly okay that Werewolves consider the human suffering which occurs when you sabotage a wyrm-tainted factory to be okay, but it would be nice if the narrative were to shift slightly to allow for righteous fury on Pentex's side (perhaps some more fluff about the atrocities carried out by Garou in the name of Gaia against mortals, and the righteous origins of Werewolf Hunters and anger among Pentex members).

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                • #38
                  The point of closing down a Wyrm Tainted factory is that you are saving the employees and customers from developing Wyrm Taint as well as saving the planet from destruction. Quite frankly though, you do not worry about unemployment when you trying to save the entire flipping planet. What does it matter if someone gets to keep their crappy job if they become corrupted by the Wyrm?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                    I'd shift things ever-so-slightly to make Pentex feel like something a reasonable person might get behind if they had very different values.
                    God, I wish I could hit the "like" button multiple times -- although...
                    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                    It's perfectly okay that Werewolves consider the human suffering which occurs when you sabotage a wyrm-tainted factory to be okay...
                    Okay, so here's my little pet peeve (and I live in the Bay Area, so I get to see this same basic mindset in the REAL world, so I'd love to see the Garou get kicked in the nuts at some point by ignoring it):

                    The Garou hate the environmental destruction brought about by industry -- the overtly Wyrm-ish stuff like Pentex are only the worst offenders. But they completely ignore the ramifications of what they ultimately want to do in a practical sense. If the Trump election ever gets mentioned in canon, I'd love it if it turns out that (even in the World of Darkness) the environment has markedly improved in the Western world in the last 40 or so years. That although the improvements have been far too little to satisfy the Garou, industry has nonetheless largely fled the United States -- with the concomitant destruction of the social fabric of the working class. The Garou wind up celebrating every time a coal mine shuts down in rural Appalachia... The Children of Gaia pat each other on the back... and then all of the banes in the area start to get way more numerous and stronger as the social fabric of what had been tight communities frays, despair spreads, and drug and alcohol abuse becomes rampant while families tear apart as kids leave to find work elsewhere and never return.

                    Have the Garou find out the hard way that all the monkeywrenching they did only made the Wyrm stronger.

                    Now that's the World of Darkness.


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                    • #40
                      My change would be so big it really wouldn't be recognizable as W:tA anymore—werewolves are the result of a monstrous curse (or rather a number of somewhat similar curses and mystical practices) rather than a hybrid species of spiritually appointed eco-warriors. Being one can be inherited, but most people become werewolves by being bitten, and have no supernatural knowledge or background until that happens. The pack would be the primary social unit, with no septs or Tribes and no Garou Nation. Differences based on the origin of one's particular curse would take the place of Breed and Tribe—you'd have werewolves descended by blood or infection from Lycaon, the Úlfhednar, Vseslav of Polotsk, Gilles de Rais, Asena the blue-maned wolf, the Navajo skinwalkers, etc. They wouldn't have any overarching purpose or mission, just individual goals and those of like-minded individuals who band together. Being supernatural creatures werewolves would still be aware of and able to interact with spirits, but rather than their own made-up shamanistic mythology it'd be the spirits of various existing cultures—ghosts, most commonly, and then woodland spirits, demons, and figures out of world religions.

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                      • #41
                        Maybe it's a tad Steven Universe, but I'd change things so that Wyrmish beasts and Wyrm-tainted creatures in general aren't destroyed outright, they're captured and subdued. Killing the Wyrm-tainted things to death feels like quite a self-defeating way to deal with them, you're just feeding a cycle of destruction whether you kill them or not.

                        *Spoilers for Steven Universe!*





                        Basically they fight these monsters which have gemstones, and the main characters all have gemstones, and the monsters are called "Gem Monsters" and the main characters call themselves "Crystal Gems". A twist comes halfway through Season One when (after some foreshadowing, such as a Monster having a humanoid silhouette at one point) it is revealed that "all of those monsters we fight used to be like us!". It's revealed that they were normal gems who were corrupted by some sort of song. I think a good theme for WTA would be fighting to fix those creatures which have become corrupted, and looking to heal them. If you want inspiration, we have Monster Buddies (Steven tries to tame one of the "gem monsters", not realising what it really is, fails, but promises he'll heal it some day), Monster Reunion (his healing powers improve and he decides to try again, runs into a wall of PTSD and relives some of the monster's Naam flashbacks), Beta (we witness a corruption happening in the present day).

                        Now most Garou will kill the wyrm-tainted things to death, but a harder and more rewarding road for the Children of Gaia and others like them is to try and heal the corrupted.
                        Last edited by 11twiggins; 03-05-2017, 09:29 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                          Maybe it's a tad Steven Universe, but I'd change things so that Wyrmish beasts and Wyrm-tainted creatures in general aren't destroyed outright, they're captured and subdued. Killing the Wyrm-tainted things to death feels like quite a self-defeating way to deal with them, you're just feeding a cycle of destruction whether you kill them or not.

                          *Spoilers for Steven Universe!*





                          Basically they fight these monsters which have gemstones, and the main characters all have gemstones, and the monsters are called "Gem Monsters" and the main characters call themselves "Crystal Gems". A twist comes halfway through Season One when (after some foreshadowing, such as a Monster having a humanoid silhouette at one point) it is revealed that "all of those monsters we fight used to be like us!". It's revealed that they were normal gems who were corrupted by some sort of song. I think a good theme for WTA would be fighting to fix those creatures which have become corrupted, and looking to heal them. If you want inspiration, we have Monster Buddies (Steven tries to tame one of the "gem monsters", not realising what it really is, fails, but promises he'll heal it some day), Monster Reunion (his healing powers improve and he decides to try again, runs into a wall of PTSD and relives some of the monster's Naam flashbacks), Beta (we witness a corruption happening in the present day).

                          Now most Garou will kill the wyrm-tainted things to death, but a harder and more rewarding road for the Children of Gaia and others like them is to try and heal the corrupted.
                          And now I want to pick tribes for the Crystal Gems and co. XD

                          Anyway, Steven is a good example of a Child of Gaia with the healing mentality. Fighting is not bad, but outright slaughter is. Plus Pearl is a great older garou/metis inspiration, given her role vs how she acts.

                          For the monsters and rehab, it might not be as simple in WtA. I mean, the reason Bismuth (a radical thinking Gem with anger issues) was bubbled was because she was hurt and keeping her around in her state would not have been helpful for anyone, least of all herself. Garou can't 'bubble' their foes, with even Erebus in W20 now basically not a place for a BSD to heal in.


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                            And now I want to pick tribes for the Crystal Gems and co. XD

                            Anyway, Steven is a good example of a Child of Gaia with the healing mentality. Fighting is not bad, but outright slaughter is. Plus Pearl is a great older garou/metis inspiration, given her role vs how she acts.

                            For the monsters and rehab, it might not be as simple in WtA. I mean, the reason Bismuth (a radical thinking Gem with anger issues) was bubbled was because she was hurt and keeping her around in her state would not have been helpful for anyone, least of all herself. Garou can't 'bubble' their foes, with even Erebus in W20 now basically not a place for a BSD to heal in.
                            Yeah, that's the issue. At least Vampires can Stake those they want to heal. The Children of Osiris stake and them mummify those who are too monstrous to be reasoned with, and spend decades preaching to them about the virtues of kindness and humanity. Not sure if it ever works, it would probably just drive me insane.

                            Caging something feels very un-Garou, but I can see a Rite or Gift which traps something and pauses any current damage or corruption, stopping them from getting worse but still letting them move around their imprisonment area.

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                            • #44
                              I'd let there be western, African and arctic Kitsune. Many countries have their own fox tales so why not take advantage of that? I liked the idea that European Kitsune like to blend in with the nobles and the wealthy to further their goals (the Roko will sometimes pose as pets) to the point that Prince Harry is one of them. To explain this would be that Bai Mianxi and her love had many children and a number of them went out into the world when they grew-up.

                              I'd definitely get rid of the dead parent curse and have the Kitsune be very fertile almost to fault. I'd also have them be one of the few Fera that has no real problems with the Garou since they weren't around during the War of the Rage and Shame. The arctic marble fox would be their attempt to create a new breed of Kitsune to help them out and so far it's been fairly successful.


                              See my splat, Angel: The Revelation (With a MUCH better link): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...qUnP1fcl-0/pub

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Yaoi Huntress Earth View Post
                                I'd let there be western, African and arctic Kitsune. Many countries have their own fox tales so why not take advantage of that? I liked the idea that European Kitsune like to blend in with the nobles and the wealthy to further their goals (the Roko will sometimes pose as pets) to the point that Prince Harry is one of them. To explain this would be that Bai Mianxi and her love had many children and a number of them went out into the world when they grew-up.

                                Here, use these if you want:


                                -Tribes:

                                NineTails
                                Ninetails can proudly state they are the original kitsune, they are the first of the fox shifters. That has made them consider themselves to be the purest and most rightful kitsune. Unlike the other 'leading' tribes, Ninetails aren't about dominating other foxes, but they often have the airs of superiority.
                                Nitty Gritty: Essentially the core kitsune. Nothing changes execpt the 'kitsune' gifts become their gifts.

                                Renarde
                                While Ninetails are the original kitsune, the Renarde are the most populous. The tribe calls France its origin country, but each country has a different bent on the renarde way. They may crossbreed with the Ninetails, only tribe to be able to do so since their origin animal is the same red fox. But the Renarde find the sly and sneaky Tails lacking in the finesse department. Renarde are all about style, all about making the best tales of trickery and stealing. They have compared themselves to the Fianna, and aspire to be as culturally influent. And thanks to the spread of their kin, Renarde terms of the kitsune kind are the most used.

                                Renarde are found everywhere where the red fox is found, aside from asia. While they use a unified name among the other foxes, each country has chosen the name of the local fox trickster for themselves. So the english Renarde is called Todd, and the finnish one is called Repolainen. Despite the varying names, all Renarde know how to make their tricks the most masterful, the most greatest. And this extends to their kin, many 'master thiefs' have been Renarde kin.
                                Appearance: Renarde all look different, but all are thin and wiry, with sly grin on their faces. Their vulpine forms can vary from a typical red fox to a silver fox. The renarde do not in any case breed with the foxform foxes, but some of their kin still get used for it.

                                Midnight Suns
                                Up north, there is little use for glamour, only the cleverest and the most stout survive. The midnight suns call their kin the arctic foxes, and like them they change their coat according to seasons. During the summer they are often grouchy, and are always on the lookout for their foes and more allies. But when the thick snow covers the land, the Midnight Suns become calmer, more considerate. Their coats blend into the snow and their quick feet carry them over it. Their strikes are quick and brutal, but rarely is the killer known.

                                The Suns are a primal lot, they believe in the good old ways of the northern shifters. Strong survive, the weak die, though the Suns rarely actively kill weaker ones,believing in Gaia knowing when one deserves to die. The suns might get lumped in with the Get of Fenris, but the Suns shun such claims. They dance to the beat of a shaman's drum, and nothing can convince them otherwise.

                                Appearance: The Midnight Suns are often of the northern european, sami or native american stock in their human form, stout and relatively short. Their animal kin is of course the arctic fox, a smaller fox that has adjusted to the harsh conditions of winter.


                                Cries of Sand
                                As if a contrast to the Midnight Suns, the Nightly Cries are a tribe of warm weather. Fennec foxes to the last, the smallest of the tribes is not the least in any way. Quick and nimble, these kitsune can get where the others cannot. Surprisingly social for a bunch of foxes, the Cries have been stereotyped by the others tribes as an army of mobbers. The Cries will quickly note that numbers have made them survive the harsh desert enviroment for centuries.

                                If the renard are the masters of art, the Cries are the masters of loudness in other ways. They spread rumours, call upon any scandal they may find. The stereotypical person on a soap box. They might be considered similar to ratkin, but the Cries are hardly wyld-mad, they just like to make their news known.





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