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Odd Question about werewolf forms

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  • Odd Question about werewolf forms

    Ok so here is the question. Can a splat permently alter the Homid and Lupine form of a shifter? I was trying to justify a BSD who had both forms altered to the point they totally different from what the BSD was once before. The BSD is a middle age man who now appears as 6 year old little girl with curely blond hair and his lupine form is that of a Pomeranian. Yet his Crinos is left unchanged. Is this even possiable or would their body heal back to normal?


    Like the Sun I am relentless even in death...

  • #2
    I think what you want it's not that different from removing or altering Werewolf Gifts. After all, Gifts become ingrained to the spirit of the werewolf, as it's forms are. This task it's supposed to take some really powerful mojo that nothing below an Incarna should be able to do.

    If this it's the case, I would think that permanently changing the nature of a werecreature ain't no simple feat. But superior powers of the cosmos, like some of the Incarna that serve the Wyrm, should have some ways to hack into the natural forms of the Werewolves, as few things are supposed to be beyond their power.

    Mage splat answer: According to Mage ST Handbook, Shifters can always shift back to their original forms after being shapeshifted to another form. There are ways of "blocking" shapeshift, but once shifted the new magickal form is lost.

    However, you know how Mage works: The answer to the question "a Mage can do x" it's always "with enough Magic(k), effort, and disreggard of the consequences, x can certainly be achieved"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rahod View Post
      Ok so here is the question. Can a splat permently alter the Homid and Lupine form of a shifter? I was trying to justify a BSD who had both forms altered to the point they totally different from what the BSD was once before. The BSD is a middle age man who now appears as 6 year old little girl with curely blond hair and his lupine form is that of a Pomeranian. Yet his Crinos is left unchanged. Is this even possiable or would their body heal back to normal?
      There is a Mokole Rite that changes a base form. You should be able to switch a wolf form to a Pomeranian. I don't think it would alter the age of a Homid form though.

      You can probably get the Homid form change from visiting the Flux. But at this point you are jumping through 2 different odd hoops and assuming decent success on both.

      Short answer: yes it's possible.
      Longer answer: it's complicated to do and requires a decent amount of power from outside sources that don't have any real reason to do this.


      Edit: and if you just need this for a character appearance thing, disguise Gifts and/or Fetishes could cover it for much less complication.
      Last edited by idpersona; 03-10-2017, 05:20 PM.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by idpersona View Post
        There is a Mokole Rite
        Gift, actually, and since it's quite high-ranking, only Mokole can learn it. Whatever they did to help the Bunyip and Kuchu Ekunda was something else, and I don't think that they would teach it to a werewolf who was interested in becoming a domestic animal, on account of how it probably wouldn't go and would thus be a waste of time to try in the first place.

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        • #5
          The Mokole Rite allows Fera to adopt a new species into their breed (effectively creating a new breed or tribe of Fera). The evolution of avian and mammalian breeds of Fera can probably be traced to Mokole adoption.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
            Gift, actually, and since it's quite high-ranking, only Mokole can learn it. Whatever they did to help the Bunyip and Kuchu Ekunda was something else, and I don't think that they would teach it to a werewolf who was interested in becoming a domestic animal, on account of how it probably wouldn't go and would thus be a waste of time to try in the first place.
            I could have sworn it was a Rite at some point, though it doesn't matter much if it's a Rite or a Gift, it is terribly unlikely to get used to the purpose the OP intended. I was just bringing it up as a possibility to accomplish the task.

            Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
            The Mokole Rite allows Fera to adopt a new species into their breed (effectively creating a new breed or tribe of Fera). The evolution of avian and mammalian breeds of Fera can probably be traced to Mokole adoption.
            Whether Gift or Rite, it doesn't really create new Breeds or Tribes. If we go with the idea that the Mokole have used it on themselves, and they are still just Mokole with no Tribal differences because of it.
            I would attribute the Bunyip and Kuchu Ekunda to the same process, and they were/are still Garou.
            Last edited by idpersona; 03-10-2017, 07:39 PM.


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            • #7
              The Bunyip were kind-of-sort-of-Garou, but their Animal Kinfolk were a separate biological cohort of mammals than the Animal Kinfolk of the Garou. I mean, the Animal Kinfolk of the Ajaba, Bastet, and Gurahl are closer related to the Animal Kinfolk of the Garou than the Animal Kinfolk of the Bunyip were to the Animal Kinfolk of the Garou.

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              • #8
                Well the Bunyip were Garou (no "kind-of-sort-of").
                I agree though that their biological differences were vast. I kind of always assumed the Bunyip being Thylacine at all was due to Mokole interference/assistance (better to try and fix it in setting than just blame poorly researched writing).

                Fair enough point though.

                Not terribly useful since this is entirely made up (and a bit off topic), but I like the idea of the Bunyip originally arriving in Australia with dingos (which would put them in the canine family) and killing off a native Changer (maybe the Koalas?). Then the native Fera, led by the Mokole united and fought back the Tribe, and part of the conditions to end the war would have the Bunyip changed over to the Thylacine as part of a grand Rite of Contrition. It was an attempt to transform them into a new type of Fera and work them into the then existing Changer alliance. But it only partially succeeded and they remained Garou. Which would add a layer of sad irony to the fact that the other Tribes killed them off later, partly for being so different.


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                • #9
                  Well, the Bird Kings and the Pouch Kings were a thing, so there could have been dozens of Fera from each group that went extinct long before the War of Rage. There were giant marsupial lions that went extinct soon after the arrival of humans (around 46,000 years ago) and, since it was around the size of a loin, so it would have been a suitable animal for a Fera. Another possibility would be Dromornithidae, giant flightless birds, of which Dromornis Stirtoni and Bullockornis Planei were notable members. Yet another possibility would have been extinct streams of Mokole and Nagah based on the huge ancient reptiles of Australia.

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                  • #10
                    So I have looked over the mokole gift and that works but does not help since it can only be done to one self. Also a BSD knowing that gift would be a far stretch. So from what I understand unless your power level is on par with Incarna or have a fetish which changes two of the three breed forms while active. Which means the BSD must have pissed off an Incarna to be turned into a little girl / Pomeranian and not died. Or he is twisted in the head and got an item to make him self cute and cuddly while not fighting. Correct me if i am wrong?


                    Like the Sun I am relentless even in death...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rahod View Post
                      So I have looked over the mokole gift and that works but does not help since it can only be done to one self. Also a BSD knowing that gift would be a far stretch. So from what I understand unless your power level is on par with Incarna or have a fetish which changes two of the three breed forms while active. Which means the BSD must have pissed off an Incarna to be turned into a little girl / Pomeranian and not died. Or he is twisted in the head and got an item to make him self cute and cuddly while not fighting. Correct me if i am wrong?
                      Out of curiosity, why do you want this critter in your game? Best case scenario it is playing the role of an ambush predator, tricking people into thinking it is an adorable puppy or child and then it transforms to slaughter them. Sabbat with protean engage in similar hijinks. That is about the least fucked-up reason I can think of a Black Spiral Dancer doing this. Otherwise you end up with issues similar to the ones that child vampires face, in that they are really prone to being squicky and awful. A BSD that looks like child cavorting around a hive... ugh. Less said, the better.

                      Spirits are capable of cursing Garou or other beings, but an Incarna turning a Black Spiral Dancer a child/pomeranian seems... really fucking weird.

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                      • #12
                        I'm also curious what the point of this is.

                        Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post
                        but an Incarna turning a Black Spiral Dancer a child/pomeranian seems... really fucking weird.
                        ....yea it is.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rahod View Post
                          his lupine form is that of a Pomeranian.
                          I remember that one. Spoilered for size. Behold, the true face of the Black Spiral Dancers.





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                          • #14
                            The reason of the need is I am filling a pack. The pack is going to be troupe of rejects, outcast, and the punished. I am trying to get the bottom of the barrel and the first idea that scary guy who was punished for his failures. Whats worse than trying to be intimidating when your a fluffy dog or being taken seriously when your Shirley Temple?


                            Like the Sun I am relentless even in death...

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                            • #15
                              I always figured a child sized homid BSD would be a pretty sinister thing, but maybe I've watched too many horror films.

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