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  • Amazon War Campaign

    Hello Folks!

    I'm starting a new game and the set up will be somewhere in the Amazon War (probably 70ish).

    I'll be using the Warg System implemented by Gogol Fang First (which may or may not show up in the party) and may play with 3 or 4 groups (apart but in the same war front, like in a Pack of another Warg and so on, so they can meet)

    That being said I'm after some thoughts about the questions bellow:

    1) What type of Fera other then Garou would be acceptable to use? I've made some NPCs of other Feras, such a Mokolé and Balam, but I'm willing the let players choose some other Fera and put them in the front line of the war and will try to work out the differences between races (Mokolé will never forget the Garou).
    2) I'm thinking of using some Spiral Dancers desguised as Ronin Garou in the Pack.
    3) What about moon bridges? Would it be acceptable to use moon bridges with connection to Amazon as outposts, so I can work the social side too?
    4) As they will be more than one group of players, I was thinking in using some Rite to put them in a PVP session, not to the death (or maybe yes, who knows right?), giving rewards for that.

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    I think introducing Fera into anything involving the Garou is fraught with peril. It can work with a single pack of PCs, but the Amazon War is a big deal with over a hundred Garou warriors at a minimum. Now, supposedly Golgol finally kissed and made up with the Balam... but it never really went into detail how exactly they resolved the little issue of the Garou stealing the Balam Den Realms and turning them into caerns. Presumably they're still holding Hollow Heart and Sky River. That coupled with the Garou going around murdering Balam whenever they could find them for some 20 odd years, makes me think that the relationship is probably still quite tense. I'd say that Corax and Nuwisha would be about the only really workable Fera other than the Balam and Mokole (and even the latter assumes that the Nuwisha are playing themselves off as Garou).

    ​Garou generally don't let Ronin anywhere near their caerns. If they do, they watch them extremely carefully, and if they're using them in the Amazon, they're (especially since it's the Get who run the show down there) probably using them as cannon-fodder or bait. So the BSDs trying to infiltrate as Ronin is not really likely to have any up-side to it -- and thus I can't really see the Dancers trying it.

    ​As for the thing about the Moon Bridges, I think you might want to clarify a little bit. Do you mean using Moon Bridges to reach various parts of the Amazon to cut down on travel time, or something? That would also probably not be a really terrific idea. In order for the bridge to be stable, one would need a pathstone at both termini. First, pathstones are not real common, and second, just leaving one lying around in the jungle where anybody can pick it up doesn't sound appealing (this is not a problem when the Moon Bridge terminus -- and thus the pathstone itself -- is within the bawn of a caern). As for established Moon Bridges, there are multiple ones from various caerns to Hollow Heart, and a secondary one from Hollow Heart to Sky River. If memory serves, there isn't even a Bridge between Rain Spirits and the other two caerns at all.


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    • #3
      Indeed, nice thoughts about it.

      As using other Fera I'm assuming a statement I think from Gogol that "if they serve to protect Gaia, they can be used" - not "serving" the Garou nation but as a common goal (that was my intention in allowing other Fera). So in certain aspects the other Fera have their interest too (like the common goal of defending their territory/important places from Wyrm destruction). But for sure I'll use the conflict with the Balam somewhere.

      As for Ronin, assuming the same statement and also assuming they have packs being killed and short of men in this war would be "acceptable" their use. But yes, I should consider that Gogol would sent a Dancer from miles.

      About moon bridges, I was assuming a more "military approach" of it, as they would need a good supply chain in order to maintain the war. The idea was to have outposts somewhere else (thinking worldwide, via umbra), that would also be target, since they would be vital to the war. But as you said, that would be from other caerns, right?

      Well, at least I'm not so far from the books.

      Thanks a lot Uniform Two Six

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
        As using other Fera I'm assuming a statement I think from Gogol that "if they serve to protect Gaia, they can be used" - not "serving" the Garou nation but as a common goal (that was my intention in allowing other Fera). So in certain aspects the other Fera have their interest too (like the common goal of defending their territory/important places from Wyrm destruction). But for sure I'll use the conflict with the Balam somewhere.
        For Fera, you have the Balam and Mokole pretty well covered.
        From the others, I think you are going to have to take a more individualistic approach. There wasn't any other "unified" Breed effort involved.
        -Ananasi helped out the Mokole though they kept a low profile and wouldn't be involved on any front line confrontation (certainly not to the knowledge of the Garou)
        -Corax can and should be found here and there, doing their thing (likely in small numbers since ravens aren't local).
        -If I remember right, there was a Rokea stalking the Amazon, stuck in Crinos.
        -For Gurahl, if you really want to include 1, it isn't impossible to have a speckled bear River Keeper show up (though it would be a bit of a trek).
        -Nowhere near the numbers of the Balam, but the Pumonca should be present, since cougars range all over South America. That at least gives you another Bastet breed as a possibility.
        -Ratkin are everywhere, and have a significant presence in South America. It would be hard to imagine them not being involved at all.

        Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
        As for Ronin, assuming the same statement and also assuming they have packs being killed and short of men in this war would be "acceptable" their use. But yes, I should consider that Gogol would sent a Dancer from miles.
        Part of the problem with Ronin, is that there generally aren't packs of Ronin wandering around. They're solitary. Not because they wouldn't form a pack given the opportunity, but more because there would have to be enough to have come across each other by chance to even have it be a possibility. So if a pack of Ronin did show up, that by itself would be pretty suspect. And as stated, Ronin aren't welcome at Caerns. They wouldn't even be told where the Caerns are.

        Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
        About moon bridges, I was assuming a more "military approach" of it, as they would need a good supply chain in order to maintain the war. The idea was to have outposts somewhere else (thinking worldwide, via umbra), that would also be target, since they would be vital to the war. But as you said, that would be from other caerns, right?
        Yea, any supply lines there are would jump through allied Caerns. Not exactly east to disrupt. And given Golgol's Rank/connections once the supply lines are set up, they should be pretty steady. There isn't much reason for allied Caern Elders to want to go up against him politically, especially if he's just having things moved through and not interfering with their Caern's routine at all. These would also tend to be higher level Caerns (which are safer and more established) since their Bridges are going to extend further.
        Last edited by idpersona; 03-15-2017, 04:04 PM.


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        • #5
          A lot of the stuff UniformTwoSix and idPersona said are golden. Just wanted to touch on this point:

          Originally posted by idpersona View Post
          Part of the problem with Ronin, is that there generally aren't packs of Ronin wandering around. Their solitary. Not because they wouldn't form a pack given the opportunity, but more because there would have to be enough to have come across each other by chance to even have it be a possibility. So if a pack of Ronin did show up, that by itself would be pretty suspect. And as stated, Ronin aren't welcome at Caerns. They wouldn't even be told where the Caerns are.
          The other problem with Ronin is that their gift choices are limited and kinda suck. Mechanically speaking, it is pretty limiting compared to joining one of the tribes. Being a Ronin in the Amazon would probably limit player choices all around, rather than expand on them.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post
            A lot of the stuff UniformTwoSix and idPersona said are golden. Just wanted to touch on this point:



            The other problem with Ronin is that their gift choices are limited and kinda suck. Mechanically speaking, it is pretty limiting compared to joining one of the tribes. Being a Ronin in the Amazon would probably limit player choices all around, rather than expand on them.
            Thanks.

            For the Ronin thing, I got the impression (and the OP may well clarify otherwise) that Ronin were being brought up as a possible route for BSD infiltration, not necessarily as a player option.


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            • #7
              idpersona thanks a lot for the contribution! Yes, I'll keep in mind that there is no "unified" effort here, just the usual world of darkness - "if it serves me, I won't kill you".

              And wow, so many good ideas coming up! I never had the chance to read the corax book, but would be a nice game to play as one of their.

              Abou the Moon Bridges, I want to keep open the chance of an invasion of all kinds. Also thinking in maybe using the mystical forest itself for an "alternative route" for "wyrm" to go through.

              The Laughing Stranger - I agree with you, but well pointed by idpersona, the Ronin would represent BSD trying to infiltrate (actually that would be a hell of a BSD game).

              Any thoughts about Technomancers? They are mentioned in the early Age of Discovery and the El Dorado city and king (as they are sent to the umbra and shut off). As they leave it open after the "rediscover" of the city by Joseph Herlich, could it be a path to go? I mean, the city of gold, right? Gifts and Fetishs awaiting.

              As for the first games, I'm sending them chasing some tainted spirts of plants and animals since they need to prove themselves in their Warg and for Gaia.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
                idpersona thanks a lot for the contribution!
                Most welcome.

                Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
                Abou the Moon Bridges, I want to keep open the chance of an invasion of all kinds. Also thinking in maybe using the mystical forest itself for an "alternative route" for "wyrm" to go through.
                So you have a couple of options here. I don't know that the forest itself should provide an alternative route for the Wyrm (this is much more likely for the native Fera). The Amazon rainforest itself should be innately fighting against the corrupting forces.

                -You can always have the Spirals traveling through tunnels under the Amazon. That's more in line with how they get around anyways. Perhaps they've brought/summoned a thunderwyrm or 2 which have been able to set up the tunnels for traveling and for ambushing and surprise Caern assaults. That's the easiest way to handle it that's most in line with the Wyrm's forces I think.
                -Alternatively (and more complicated) you could have a corrupt Ratkin (or a few of them if your story needs it) assisting the Spirals by performing Rite of the Bolthole for them to get around. That would keep your mystical secret routes idea intact while also potentially pulling in the Ratkin element (for another Fera involvement) into the Amanzon war. Go this route f you want Ratkin involvement (both as enemies and potential allies) more at the forefront.
                -The Spirals might also have a corrupted moonstone stolen from a fallen Caern that lets them open Moon Bridges to the Caerns it used to be used for. That could make for a nasty surprise assault. And then have the PCs have to track down the item and destroy it to prevent further surprise Bridges.

                Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
                Any thoughts about Technomancers? They are mentioned in the early Age of Discovery and the El Dorado city and king (as they are sent to the umbra and shut off). As they leave it open after the "rediscover" of the city by Joseph Herlich, could it be a path to go? I mean, the city of gold, right? Gifts and Fetishs awaiting.
                I would leave technomancers out of it entirely. The whole conflict is complicated enough before adding this in there. You can use the whole El Dorado/city of gold thing if you want without involving anything to do with Mages or the Technocracy. Come up with something more in line with Werewolf for it to be. Maybe it's an ancient Mokole cache, or a hidden high level Caern or Den Realm, or an entrance to a spirit Realm where some forgotten or sleeping Incarna lies.

                Originally posted by Ntrlz View Post
                As for the first games, I'm sending them chasing some tainted spirts of plants and animals since they need to prove themselves in their Warg and for Gaia.
                Sounds pretty basic for an intro. If it works out and you're willing, I look forward to hearing about it.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by idpersona View Post

                  -The Spirals might also have a corrupted moonstone stolen from a fallen Caern that lets them open Moon Bridges to the Caerns it used to be used for. That could make for a nasty surprise assault. And then have the PCs have to track down the item and destroy it to prevent further surprise Bridges.
                  Also note that Sept of the Hollow Heart sits on top of what (prior to Golgol's ill-advised invasion) was Matua's Den Realm. Since Atahualpa got pissed (and corrupted) and went over to the other side, it's always possible that Matua had a pathstone there and Atahualpa has the "keys" so to speak, to open it up.


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                  • #10
                    There it goes! I don't know why but I love thunderwyms.

                    Anyway, it is suposed to be a 2 times a month, things will go slow. And like always work is consuming most of my time.

                    Thanks a lot for your time guys! idpersona Uniform Two Six

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                    • #11
                      No-problemo, dude. Have fun.


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                      • #12
                        Hello!

                        I use the Rage across the Amazon currently for a TT game that has been running for about 6 or 7 months now. I can say the Warg system has been really useful to use, and Golgol just being a presence has had a great effect for the characters and players after playing two years prior with mostly adren and a couple of Athro as Npcs only introduced previously.

                        I have given the book a w20 makeover, and bringing it up to the 2016/17 timeframe.

                        I found watching documentaries really helped learn not just about the animals, but also what living there is like really useful as to its problems and hardships.

                        The Explorer Ed Stafford a few years ago was the first to walk the Amazon river from beginning to end and it took nearly two and half years.

                        Bruce Parry's documentaries show a lot of what living and depending on the rivers there is like and the hardships the indigenous peoples face.

                        anyway, back to the questions and ideas.

                        The Amazon river has Bull Sharks that swim it annually to breed. Being able to swim in fresh and salt water these fish can often be found sharing the rivers with caiman, electric eels, piranha and paramima.

                        Just when you thought the river was dangerous enough right? I've had a single Rokea Deepwater on one stretch of water guarding it for when breeding season comes along and Rokea and kinfolk come swimming for mates. With the troubles of pentex and pollution to the waters feeding into the ocean it might not be difficult to have a few rokea come looking to see what is making the water bad elsewhere or maybe tracking something really terrible back to its source. If you wanted to add them.

                        I've primarily used Mokole and Balam. My troupe are keeping away from the Balam. I think because they prefer the were crocs and have had a good history with helios as a pack previously. Rather than any other reason.

                        I'd always sneak in a Corax if you wanted.

                        And the Amazon is home to the largest rodents in the world. If a ratkin turned up but really I try to keep the focus on the garou.

                        though saying that. The enemy they just faced and killed was a BSD theurge servant of Bat with a Camazotz fetish skull mask that had been using corrupted gifts and rites of the BatShifters as a way to haunt the garou at night through the forests and generally be terrifying with sacrifices and blood magic.

                        I generally play up ronin as a life no garou would want. So I dont use them other than as a sorrowful state of warning for others on 'dont do what I did' kinda thing. But if you want to hide BSDs there are ways. I have fictitious people's I've made up that have been taken over by bsds as breeding stock they visit. You say indigineous tribe and my players leave the area alone and act respectful. Not one of them has been checked out. Wyrm taint sensed sure, reported back as info but nothing done yet.

                        as for supply lines and moonbridges. I dont have moonbridges used often unless desperate. Because all the garou are trying to keep their sacred places secret and dont want the energies and bridges tracked or attacked while they are trying to control and wage war on so much already.

                        I have it that the supplies are run by kinfolk and it can take weeks or months to get the next drop. It really heightens how precious every resource the characters have and can get hold off. Often trading things like guns and ammo or rites and swapping duties to gain something else they might need.

                        and how dependent the garou are on their kin to get supplies in that they cant get in the jungles.

                        The only time pvp comes up is if someone does something the others arent willing to let go. Pvp works great for vampire, but in werewolf I try to keep it to a minimum. Unless they are challenging for something. Then I let them go for it.

                        I really really love the amazon game I'm running. If I could play in it I would I hope yours brings you a lot of enjoyment too.

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                        • #13
                          O'tolleys is surprising effective at tearing Gaia to shreds in the amazon war.


                          My Savannah Setting for CofD can be found here

                          My heroes as monster tamers rules for BtP can be found here

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                          • #14
                            Sorry for the absence!

                            Somuchlove that was lovely, omg. I've no words. Please PM and we can talk about the game! It would be a pleasure!

                            This kinda slowed because, well, life and difficulties to schedule. Last time the pack went south after some bad rolls. No one cares about toxins until, well, only the gnawers standing between you and death. What can I say, they are starting to understand the "powers" of Wyrm.

                            Always good to bring the terror to D&D players.

                            Some background, I'm from Brazil so I have knowledge of many things about Amazonia and Pantanal which could give you same scenario of the Amazon war, since there you find "Onça Pintada" (feline) and "Jacaré do Pantanal" (which is a unique kind of Caiman), even expanding maybe. But as stated before, Amazonia is huge and the explorer crossed it, think about m², would be half a lifetime to know it all. I sense powerfull theurge in it.

                            I want to take my notes and maybe write the history down!

                            Always a pleasure and many thanks again.

                            I'll update when things roll again!

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