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Legendary Garou

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  • Legendary Garou

    So they are the most powerful Werewolves in the WOD right? WHat would a legendary garou look like and what would be some of their power that differentiate from a normal garou?

  • #2
    a curious follow up question? why are their no rank 6 breed gifts?


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    • #3
      I would say there are no breed 6 gifts because that late in life their focus is on the tribes not breed since they are most likely not able to breed due to age. So if they do get old enough to reach rank 6 without death their bodies are old and past the breeding time.


      Like the Sun I am relentless even in death...

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      • #4
        On a similar note, I expressed I would love to see a "Legands" book based around rank 6, gifts for the breeds and all tribes, along with the changing breeds. Concepts like what would it take to become a legend among the different tribes/aupsices or the Fera as well. I think it'd be a blast to read, and I know this isn't for everyone, but sometimes I'm in the mode for epic goals and epic game play.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
          So they are the most powerful Werewolves in the WOD right? WHat would a legendary garou look like and what would be some of their power that differentiate from a normal garou?
          Not meaning to be sarcastic, but look up Golgol Fangs-First (Rage Across the Amazon or updated in Rage: Warriors of the Apocalypse) or Grimfang (and in Rage: WotA).
          I seem to remember a Rank 6 or two written up in Apocalypse as well. They aren't automatically more powerful than everyone else. They have the experience though (both lower and upper case "e"s) to back up their position. So they tend to have lots of stats at 4-5 and generally have a number of decent to good Fetishes. And their Rank means they can call on plenty of support Garou should the need arise. So Golgol isn't necessarily only scary because he is a Legendary Garou. He's a Legendary Garou leading an army of Garou.
          Rank 6 Gifts (of which Legends generally have only 1) are really powerful, but they tend to be fairly niche (imo).

          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
          a curious follow up question? why are their no rank 6 breed gifts?
          Well there aren't Rank 6 Gifts for several Tribes either as far as I can remember. I always took the ones that we're written up as mean to just be inspiration. So if you want a Rank 6 Homid Gift, just make up something fitting.
          I agree with Rahod somewhat in principle though. By that point, the Garou in question focuses far more on either Auspice or Tribe.


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          • #6
            I would allow for rank 6 Garou to take 1st level Planetary Incarna gifts from Rage Across the Heavens. :P

            Seriously though, some rank 5 planetary gifts would be great fits for Legendary Garou, like Cleansing Flame, Grand Gesture, and Earth Heal.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CeltSPZ View Post
              On a similar note, I expressed I would love to see a "Legands" book based around rank 6, gifts for the breeds and all tribes, along with the changing breeds. Concepts like what would it take to become a legend among the different tribes/aupsices or the Fera as well. I think it'd be a blast to read, and I know this isn't for everyone, but sometimes I'm in the mode for epic goals and epic game play.
              Seconded. It could also touch on how the legendary rank 6+s inspire the other Fera. Including Fera from outside their Breed. A part could detail moments/times of great Fera cooperation.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                Seconded. It could also touch on how the legendary rank 6+s inspire the other Fera. Including Fera from outside their Breed. A part could detail moments/times of great Fera cooperation.
                There is no rank beyond 6. You've already maxed out all of your Renown and done something so amazing that everyone will recall it forever; going beyond that isn't handled by the game as written.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                  There is no rank beyond 6. You've already maxed out all of your Renown and done something so amazing that everyone will recall it forever; going beyond that isn't handled by the game as written.
                  Hm, isn't it noted in regards to the Black Spiral, in at least one book (of the Wyrm), that each circle signifies a rise in rank for the Black Spiral Dancers? With the ninth being different and offering a possibility to ascend to being a Totem, for example.

                  Also, don't Kitsune ranks go beyond 6, and they gain an extra tail at each one? I recall that there is one Kitsune who has nine tails.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                    Hm, isn't it noted in regards to the Black Spiral, in at least one book (of the Wyrm), that each circle signifies a rise in rank for the Black Spiral Dancers? With the ninth being different and offering a possibility to ascend to being a Totem, for example.

                    Also, don't Kitsune ranks go beyond 6, and they gain an extra tail at each one? I recall that there is one Kitsune who has nine tails.
                    ...sort of. I believe the Spiral is implied to work that way, but there is no real system for it. And the actual normal-ish Renown system for advancing Rank is used for Spirals anyways.

                    And the Nine-tails is something different altogether. She would have a theoretical Rank of 9, but beyond Rank 6, all power levels are more or less plot powers. Her first consort (Prince Inari) is a totem for example, so she is of that power level or beyond. Doesn't much matter. The last line of Saur's post is the important part:
                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                    going beyond that isn't handled by the game as written.
                    Last edited by idpersona; 03-22-2017, 01:44 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by idpersona View Post
                      all power levels are more or less plot powers.
                      I'm inclined to disagree; while powers over five-six are hard to use in games across the whole World of Darkness, they definitely aren't 'plot powers'. Mage: the Ascension has a workable/interesting write-up for Spheres over 5.
                      Going back to Fera - I think Rank 7 Fera would be those that could still be interactable and/or playable enough to include in a book about Garou and/or Fera legendary heroes.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                        I'm inclined to disagree; while powers over five-six are hard to use in games across the whole World of Darkness, they definitely aren't 'plot powers'. Mage: the Ascension has a workable/interesting write-up for Spheres over 5.
                        Going back to Fera - I think Rank 7 Fera would be those that could still be interactable and/or playable enough to include in a book about Garou and/or Fera legendary heroes.
                        I am specifically referring to Werewolf. Since there are no Ranks beyond 6 (nor does there need to be since there are only a handful of Garou even at that Rank at any given time), any powers above that level do whatever the story needs them to do.

                        It is pointless to argue the specifics of whether Hakaken can win in a fight against Prince Inari, or how powerful they are in a direct conflict compared to Number Two. This is 100% based on the needs of the story, which is why I said at that power level everyone just has "plot powers".

                        All we know is that beyond Rank 6 (and most of these entities never achieved that Rank actually, come to think of it) power level is vague concept, as they are just sort of treated as spirits beings. Most as just put in the broad power range category of "incarna".


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                        • #13
                          I agree 100%

                          Also, Rank is not really commensurable with Spheres nor with Arete (and the latter aren't commensurable either). Rank seems somewhat akin to a social background, hanvig Rank 6 it's being a legend among spirits and Garou alike. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rank doesn't represent magical power. Gifts represent this. If Rank 7 Gifts existed, a Rank 1 werewolf could learn them if the spirits want to teach her (the spirits ain't going to want, but that's besides the point, the point it's that the "power scaling" doesn't work like Vampire or Mage)

                          This does not mean that you can't make Rank above 6. But rather than "power-level", I think that it's about the kind of EPIC deeds that are expected of such a legend...I'm not against a Book of Legends, but "Archwerewolves" deeds and stats would have to be trully larger than life to satisfy me, not like Masters of the Art and it's infamous Archmasters with 12 levels in Spheres, and 10 in Backgrounds (twice a starting character, basically).
                          Last edited by Aleph; 03-22-2017, 12:26 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                            I agree 100%

                            Also, Rank is not really commensurable with Spheres nor with Arete (and the latter aren't commensurable either). Rank seems somewhat akin to a social background, hanvig Rank 6 it's being a legend among spirits and Garou alike. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rank doesn't represent magical power. Gifts represent this. If Rank 7 Gifts existed, a Rank 1 werewolf could learn them if the spirits want to teach her (the spirits ain't going to want, but that's besides the point, the point it's that the "power scaling" doesn't work like Vampire or Mage)
                            Yep. The 'gate' for magic powers in Werewolf is social, rather than a limit imposed by hard rules. If a Cliath was somehow found worthy of learning a higher level gift, they can. Some storytellers are particularly lenient on this point and make it easy for spirits to teach higher ranked gifts to lower rank werewolves. In any case, though, learning rank 5 gifts (or made up higher ranking gifts) is a big deal.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                              I agree 100%

                              Also, Rank is not really commensurable with Spheres nor with Arete (and the latter aren't commensurable either). Rank seems somewhat akin to a social background, hanvig Rank 6 it's being a legend among spirits and Garou alike. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rank doesn't represent magical power. Gifts represent this. If Rank 7 Gifts existed, a Rank 1 werewolf could learn them if the spirits want to teach her (the spirits ain't going to want, but that's besides the point, the point it's that the "power scaling" doesn't work like Vampire or Mage)
                              There's another dimension of spiritual resonance that combines with other factors to make Gift power levels all over the place - Bastet can easily learn Catfeet, Rokea have an even easier time getting their skin or flesh secretions to hurt others, as well as bite things extra-hard, and water-based changers have a harder time learning to immolate their claws to burn their enemies (sorry Nagah, Same-Bito, and Zhong Long, you have to wait another rank to learn Fire Claws!). So, at the very least, Rank 1-4 or even some 5 Gifts seem like they might play on a much more level field than 1-5 dots in the Discipline of Blowshitupus.

                              This does not mean that you can't make Rank above 6. But rather than "power-level", I think that it's about the kind of EPIC deeds that are expected of such a legend...I'm not against a Book of Legends, but "Archwerewolves" deeds and stats would have to be trully larger than life to satisfy me, not like Masters of the Art and it's infamous Archmasters with 12 levels in Spheres, and 10 in Backgrounds (twice a starting character, basically).
                              The rise of "Mega-Renown"! (^VVVVVVV^)

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