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Female Mule Fertility and the Perfect Metis

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  • Female Mule Fertility and the Perfect Metis

    *Opens up Can of Worms*

    *Sacrifices Cat Girl in the name of mixing Fantasy and Science*

    I've been reading about Mule Infertility and discovered that occasionally a female Mule will give birth to offspring. And sometimes that offspring is a normal horse.

    It is now known that in most fertile mule mares, the mare passes on a complete set of her maternal genes (i.e. from her horse/pony mother) to the foal rather than a mixture of chromosomes. A female mule bred to a horse will therefore produce a 100% horse foal.
    Now I am wondering if there have been instances of female metis becoming pregnant and how the Garou Nation would react to such an occurrence. What are the odds of such a pregnancy being allowed to continue or the child/pup surviving to adulthood?

    I am also intrigued by the idea of a Metis mating with the same breed of Kinfolk as their mother producing a normal child/pup. What chance would the offspring go though the first change? Would a Metis/Homid mating still produce a metis?

    When a mule gave birth in Albania in 1994, it was thought to have unleashed the spawn of the devil on a small village. When a mule gave birth in 2002 in Morocco five years ago, locals feared it signaled the end of the world.
    Considering how normal humans reacted to a few mule births, I imagine "metis offspring being the harbinger of the Apocalypse" is not a far fetched response for the Garou. And hey, the "Perfect" metis is considered a harbinger of the Apocalypse.


    Yes, this is all far fetched and will rarely see the light of day at any gaming table, but it doesn't hurt to play the "What if" game.


    Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

    The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

  • #2
    Metis aren't physically infertile, they are spiritually so. As in, a male metis has all the equipment and they function just fine, the female metis might menstruate, but idk. They just can't conceive or sire a child.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
      Metis aren't physically infertile, they are spiritually so. As in, a male metis has all the equipment and they function just fine, the female metis might menstruate, but idk. They just can't conceive or sire a child.

      Technically, Male Mules have all the equipment, can mate, but can't sire offspring either. And some Female Mules may have their cycles too.

      I'm really just brainstorming here. I grew up reading scifi, so my mind wanders into dark science places in fantasy/horror settings all the time. I annoy the people in the Exalted forum all the time with comparing the Loom of Fate to Databases and my jokes about Alchemicals running on Linux. :P


      Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

      The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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      • #4
        If a Apis used "Mercy for the Misbegotten"
        How do you think the Garou nation would respond?

        think the child was an abomination, and must be destroyed,

        or a messiah, or what?

        Yes, it might be tinted somewhat by the circumstances of the Apis's return.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by wonderandawe View Post


          Technically, Male Mules have all the equipment, can mate, but can't sire offspring either. And some Female Mules may have their cycles too.

          I'm really just brainstorming here. I grew up reading scifi, so my mind wanders into dark science places in fantasy/horror settings all the time.
          I think what Ana is getting at is that you are sorta comparing apples and oranges, in that horse/donkey hybrids aren't Metis. Biologically speaking, sure, weird things can happen and mules can occasionally breed. In WtA, though, it should take more than just a quirk of genetics for a Metis to have kids. When the First Metis has a child, it actually is a sign of the Apocalypse; it isn't the sort of thing that just happens for no reason other than odd luck.
          Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 04-24-2017, 05:42 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

            I think what Ana is getting at is that you are sorta comparing apples and oranges, in that horse/donkey hybrids aren't Metis. Biologically speaking, sure, weird things can happen and mules can occasionally breed. In WtA, though, it should take more than just a quirk of genetics for a Metis to have kids. When the First Metis has a child, it actually is a sign of the Apocalypse. It isn't the sort of thing that just happens for no reason other than odd luck.

            I understand I am comparing Apples and Oranges. But I just want to have a thought experiment about what if there was some weird quirk of luck in the past and....

            Bah. Never mind. I guess taking random occurrences and attaching meaning to them would undermine the setting or something like that.

            *collects worms and puts them back into can*

            *throws cat girl corpse onto the fire*


            Are you ready to rage? Discover if you are Brave Enough to fight for the soul of the world.

            The Werewolf: the Apocalypse Quest updates on Mondays. All are welcome to vote.

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            • #7
              Also dont forget summer country!

              Metis can have children there.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                Also dont forget summer country!

                Metis can have children there.
                What happens in summer country, stays in summer country.

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                • #9
                  I know, making it truly Bittersweet.

                  But think that Mercy for the Misbegotten, could be potentialy misunderstood by the garou enough, that a Returned Apis, wont Casualy use it simply because he's come to like a particular Metis?


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                    I know, making it truly Bittersweet.

                    But think that Mercy for the Misbegotten, could be potentialy misunderstood by the garou enough, that a Returned Apis, wont Casualy use it simply because he's come to like a particular Metis?
                    That'd be an elder Apis. Impressing them would take an awful lot, and practically no one's heard of them, nor would they suspect to consider a dead Fera as the cause...

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                    • #11
                      Would depend how the Apis returned too.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
                        Metis aren't physically infertile, they are spiritually so. As in, a male metis has all the equipment and they function just fine, the female metis might menstruate, but idk. They just can't conceive or sire a child.
                        Metis don't exist in real life. The spiritual/biological differentiation is moot because there's no criteria to convert but our own will.

                        So I suggest instead thinking on looser terms. "Mules in our world can produce normal non-mule offspring - What would happen if female metis have a similar potential? Their origin is mule-esque."
                        Which is what the OP started.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Synapse View Post

                          Metis don't exist in real life. The spiritual/biological differentiation is moot because there's no criteria to convert but our own will.

                          So I suggest instead thinking on looser terms. "Mules in our world can produce normal non-mule offspring - What would happen if female metis have a similar potential? Their origin is mule-esque."
                          Which, as wonderandawe stated, kind of undermines the nature of eschatological prophecy. You can disregard that, and have Metis-mating sometimes result in freak pregnancies, but what purpose does that serve? It just means that the Perfect Metis doesn't matter and/or isn't really a thing. Maybe that is fine for your game, but I don't really see how it benefits the setting as a whole.
                          Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 04-25-2017, 12:48 PM.

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                          • #14
                            He's wondering about adding a little curious detail of mules to the werewolves with a rough parallel.
                            HOW does it undermine the prophecy? When has humanity ever stopped giving meaning to prophecies just because there's a few "lookalikes" going on?
                            I'd not be too quick to dismiss that if someone is looking for such appeal. Instead of drawing on an arbitrary disparity to say "no", let's look at what happens with a "yes".

                            The apocalypse is ALL about that damn prophecy and the chain of events surrounding it. Any time in which "the world is shit" is a valid time for someone watching the freak birth to be alarmed. That's worth a story on its own.
                            To have part of the nation discrediting the actual perfect metis because it happens a dozen times a century is just as worthy to add to the game if that's your thing.

                            It's a layer of complexity in a long and tumultuous endgame.
                            What do other bĂȘte think of such occurrences? And the spirits? Where do they agree and where do they disagree? How does that play out in an eastern spirit court? Does the metisborn garou inherit the parent's stigma? Has one of them ever chosen to don the mantle of the perfect metis? What went to shit because of that?

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                            • #15
                              How are Metis mules? They are the opposite of mules, as both of their parents come from the same species.

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