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  • Why do you like WtA?

    There are such topics in Exalted section, so I want to start this one. I'm actually DON'T like Garou. On the hater level. But... I would like to ead about why people can root to them.

  • #2
    Personally, I love the spiritual nature of the Garou. As a person, I love being in nature, and seeing the beauty of the Earth. Having a setting where the Earth is literally alive, and your purpose is to protect that speaks to me. The fact that it's also mixed with a horror setting, which happens to be my favorite genre just doubles up on two things that I've always appreciated.

    I also feel like Werewolf allows for a large variety of subject matter for storylines. You can have internal or external Sept politics. You can have the body horror/slash em up style of gameplay. You can have characters caught between their dual natures of having once been human (If you're a Homid born) and you're new life as a monster, dealing with the Rage burning inside of you. You can have adventures into the Near Realms or Deep Umbra that can hit on nearly any topic you want. And while other game settings can have these types of stories as well, I feel like the game gives you near endless possibilities while keeping a unique theme.

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    • #3
      Spiritualism, Political incorrectness, violence, rage, horror, personal inspiration, savagery, war, myth, epical stuff, the slaughter, the deep spiritual horror.


      -'' When the winds howl and the Storms rage, where will you run?''-

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      • #4
        Its pure addiction and love on the first sight.
        No other game managed to keep me and my party for so long time and so deep inside its world.
        Last edited by Story Letter; 08-28-2017, 08:57 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Vulcan7200 View Post
          Personally, I love the spiritual nature of the Garou. As a person, I love being in nature, and seeing the beauty of the Earth. Having a setting where the Earth is literally alive, and your purpose is to protect that speaks to me. The fact that it's also mixed with a horror setting, which happens to be my favorite genre just doubles up on two things that I've always appreciated.

          I also feel like Werewolf allows for a large variety of subject matter for storylines. You can have internal or external Sept politics. You can have the body horror/slash em up style of gameplay. You can have characters caught between their dual natures of having once been human (If you're a Homid born) and you're new life as a monster, dealing with the Rage burning inside of you. You can have adventures into the Near Realms or Deep Umbra that can hit on nearly any topic you want. And while other game settings can have these types of stories as well, I feel like the game gives you near endless possibilities while keeping a unique theme.
          Basically this. The environmentalism angle really did speak to me back in the day (and still does), it was partly what steered me to the direction my college studies went and the other parts were very fascinating too.


          If nothing worked, then let's think!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lashet View Post
            I'm actually DON'T like Garou. On the hater level.
            Why you actually don't like Garou ? They are awesome !
            Last edited by Story Letter; 08-30-2017, 08:22 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Story Letter View Post

              Why you actually don't like Garou ? They are awesome !
              1) Their hypocrisy (the world become such shitty place cuz of them mostly)
              2) Bigotry and racism (toward many Fera, many other supers - esp vampires)
              3) They like to act as they are big shit, but they have no actual crossover wins? On the high level they seem to be weak.
              4) Their constant whining is just annoying.
              after all, for me they are really like those school nerds who one day came to school with guns.
              I will be glad to see them like this cuz this how they deserved feel themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc2OvrpzjvM


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                1) Their hypocrisy (the world become such shitty place cuz of them mostly)
                2) Bigotry and racism (toward many Fera, many other supers - esp vampires)
                3) They like to act as they are big shit, but they have no actual crossover wins? On the high level they seem to be weak.
                4) Their constant whining is just annoying.
                after all, for me they are really like those school nerds who one day came to school with guns.
                I will be glad to see them like this cuz this how they deserved feel themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc2OvrpzjvM
                1) Not all garou are hypocrites, there are many among them, including our player characters and many signature characters, who are actually models of of honesty, for the good or for the worse, yes there is still hypocrisy inside the garou society related to the devastating mistakes they have done to the past and still do but there is also great valor, heroism and sacrifice, something that is vastly missing from all other splats. Afterall all WoD games have hipocrisy inside them.

                And no, the world did not become bad only because of the garou, if the weaver did not make the wyrm mad, the werewoles would not have been created by Gaia and their Rage would not have been tainted by the corrupting wyrm. In the WoD the major reaponsibility for a bad world falls to mankind, humans are to blame for all that is bad, the impergium may be the reason, but the last hit has been delivered by mankind who only made a step further to make the world even worse. The proof is the modern day life that enslaved mankind into prisons if glass and metal poluting the very world they live in. You know, only the garou care for the future of the natural world, and from the other splats only very few who still can't do the difference. Even the other fera are incapable to protect the earth from the danger of msnkind, at least werewolves try.

                2)Yes werewolves are full of bigotry and racism, but their enemies are full of bigotry and racism against them too. And the other fera were ill-mannered towards the Garou even before the war of Rage. This is the nature of nature and this is the nature of nature's shapeshifting children, your blood my life, your devastation my presevation, its only natural that kind of manner to extend to in their society and their religion. A religion that proves true though, look what humans do to the world, look what the children of the wyrm do to mother earth, so yes Garou have a plenty of reasons to be violent both righteous and wicked ones.

                Vampires? But vampires are the personification of racism, ''humanity is inferior'' I hear it in every game I have ever played, not to mention the various supplements.
                Garou have every righteous reason to be hateful against vampires, they spread disease and put family in danger, not to mention that their very presence is blasphemy. The werewooves only want to return the walking corpses to the earth they belong, its simple logic not racism.

                3)Come on lets don't be hypocrites, everyone would like to act big if he/she was actually big, muscular and fluffy. Appart from that I don't really remember any splat to ever have a clean victory over another splat. And for good reason, after all each game is its own game and it would have been really bad to be depicted as inferior towards another game. So yes garou are presented as having no crossover victories, but no other species do so as well.

                From my experience with all wod games I can say with the hand in my heart that Garou on high level can fight against anything of higher level, its just that high level garou fight completely differently than low level ones and with more sophisticated methods and adapt completely differently to the various challenges. I had some extremely awesome experiences against demons, mages mathusela vamps and various other higher level entities, (our Rank3 ragabash killed a nictuku with one arrow shot).

                4)What do you mean about constant whinning ?

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                • #9
                  1) They lost and lost and lost grounds. Imperium made people against nature, War of Rage eliminate a lot potential allies. Even now they continue to fight each other and to be complete dicks.The protection of Earth was their duty and they failed. Hence, the modern world is completely their fault.
                  2) F*ck humans they ARE inferior. Mages, fairies and others don't hate vampires that much. Only Garou do. And they don't even try to make difference. That's wrong.
                  And vampires don't care about werewolves till they try to fight them without any reason.
                  3)
                  So yes Garou are presented as having no crossover victories, but no other species do so as well
                  Techs and katayans killed freaking Ravana.
                  4) "Oh-h, that's so bad" "Oh-h no one like us" Yep, and you deserve this.i want.
                  that's why I like to see them as broken and destroyed as Rambo on the vid. They should suffer. Till any piece of hope and happiness will be destroyed in them. That's what I want.
                  UPD:
                  its just that high level garou fight completely differently than low level ones and with more sophisticated methods and adapt completely differently to the various challenges.
                  Other supers - like vampire Elders and old mages, fairies - has enough raw power usually. Also, Garou can't be immortal or at least long-living - that's sucks, cuz any other splat can.
                  Last edited by Lashet; 08-31-2017, 09:36 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                    1) They lost and lost and lost grounds. Imperium made people against nature, War of Rage eliminate a lot potential allies. Even now they continue to fight each other and to be complete dicks.The protection of Earth was their duty and they failed. Hence, the modern world is completely their fault.
                    2) F*ck humans they ARE inferior. Mages, fairies and others don't hate vampires that much. Only Garou do. And they don't even try to make difference. That's wrong.
                    And vampires don't care about werewolves till they try to fight them without any reason.
                    3) Techs and katayans killed freaking Ravana.
                    4) "Oh-h, that's so bad" "Oh-h no one like us" Yep, and you deserve this.i want.
                    that's why I like to see them as broken and destroyed as Rambo on the vid. They should suffer. Till any piece of hope and happiness will be destroyed in them. That's what I want.
                    UPD: Other supers - like vampire Elders and old mages, fairies - has enough raw power usually. Also, Garou can't be immortal or at least long-living - that's sucks, cuz any other splat can.

                    1)Yes garou made grave mistakes and they lost ground because of the failings of the past, and here we have a wonderfully brilliand twist, the generation of the apocalypse! A whole modern time generation of garou who want to right the wrongs of their ancestors, they may be too late or they may be indeed the heroes who will make the difference, And this element is WONDERFUL to run in a campaign. Also they are the only ones who actively do something to protect the earth, and by something I mean risking limb and life.
                    Vampires: earth ? what earth ? you mean earth meld ? no? pff don't bother
                    Mages: what the earth is alive ? wuaaaauuu illuminatiooon, zeeennnn, oooommmmm
                    Fera: the earth is dying? to the %&*!@ wiith you, may the wyrm take you too
                    Changelings: the earth is dying ? AAAAA THE EARTH IS DYIIIIING, there will be no more dreaming ''whimp whimp''

                    You see maybe in older times the garou were seemed to be idiotic, but in the modern world its exactly the opposite, can't say the same for the other splats though. The modern world is completely their fault? Now thats an exaggeration, greater responsibility falls to the kindred who corrupted mankind from within through their various political schemings over so many millenia.

                    2)
                    F*ck humans they ARE inferior
                    , thats racist

                    Garou have every reason to hate vampires, man even I as human would hate a walking corpse that wants to drink my blood, burn the forest of my village because his elder wants to expand his domain or even trying to turn me in a walking corpse that drinks blood and put in danger all those who are close to me because of my unholy hunger. Not to mention again that vampires spread diseases, enter wyrm ridden frenzies of blood lust, spread wyrm taint that attracts other wyrm thing etc etc. Immagine now the righteous hate of a Rage fuelled beast for the undead. Its the kindred who should already start to make the difference, if they were not do wyrmie thing Garou would automatically leave them alone.

                    3)Oh man you say it on your own Techs AND kathayans, its not a single splat thing and it was not a victory, more like the remaining survivors of a nuclear holocaust.

                    4)Come onnnn, you exaggerate, there is no whinning in the Garou only bad grudge. Afterall its the fera's fault that can't see in what times they live in, and idiotic enough not to come in terms with their wolf cousins, only after they lost their caerns to the wyrm they came crawling to the garou pleading for acceptance and the garou did offer hospitality and aid.

                    5) Other supers may have raw power but garou have ways to take that power away from them. And garou can become immortal, its just that when they do so they stop being garou and become something else, from mythical godlike beings to spirits and incarna like entities.
                    Last edited by Story Letter; 08-31-2017, 02:33 PM.

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                    • #11
                      1) Pff. And why they couldn't be someone who didn't make this amount if mess> Still hope that may be 5th ed retcon some of their fails...
                      2)as well as their hate to vampires. We as players know that at least Camarilia bloodsakers in-mass are mostly normal guys, and all this connection to Wyrm is just shit from old 1st ed days.
                      3) OK who Garou killed with help of fairies?
                      4) So, Fera should be nice to those who slayed almost all their kind? F*ck this. Really, the World with such protectors dosn't deserve to exist. It's better to be kings in hell
                      5) So, Garou are officially inferior race thins other splats can be more powerfull.
                      And garou can become immortal, its just that when they do so they stop being garou and become something else, from mythical godlike beings to spirits and incarna like entities.
                      What do you mean

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                      • #12
                        1) I am not sure if they will change the history, the only thing so far is the mood, when will you rage and that the apocalypse will be something that will be real or false depending on the story teller or something like that.

                        2)No, camarilla are not normal guys, they pretend they are, they are still rutheless monsters that cling to humanity only in order not to lose themselves entirely to the beast, even toreador who are admirers of humanity time and again don't actually love it. Imagine the worse of the camarilla how worse they can be. They are just not sabbat nuttshellheads.
                        The garou don't usually smell wyrm on vampires physically, usually, They mostly smell it with the sense wyrm gift which automatically makes them target because vampires do spread corruption. Unfortunately for vampires the wyrm touches anything in the matterial world that represents its presence or its nature, the same happens with werewolves that eat people or enter the thrall of the wyrm.
                        It doesn't really have to do with the edition of the game, its just how the wyrm enters in your very being.

                        3)The fomorian king Balor. You know, Balor's gaze. Along with his fomorian army.
                        You know Balor was a giant, if not titan, of unimaginable power.

                        4)No, the fera shouldn't be nice to those who slayed almost all their kind, but they should also be open-minded to what really is happening around them.

                        5)What do you mean by inferior? I don't think the other splats are more powerfull, they are just seem to look like that but they aren't really as powerful as they claim to be.
                        High arete mages can still burn themselves up with their own spells and vampire elders can still be killed by human ninjas, what do you mean by ''more powerful'' ?

                        What do you mean
                        That garou can become immortal, its rare but it has happened, like when they get transformed to other kind of creatures through legendary gifts, ot they turn litteraly immortal by residing for long time in the umbra and turn to spirits, or by ascendig by Gaia (or the Wyrm) to incarna like beings.
                        Last edited by Story Letter; 08-31-2017, 04:49 PM.

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                        • #13
                          1) I agree with you but I still hope.
                          2) Again, I still hope they will changed it. Sense Wyrm does not shows mages and fairies, you know? Let's no put this shit to vamps. We live in freackin PC-era.
                          3) Proof? Seriously know, I never heard about this.
                          4) After what this motherf*ckers did? I think for average Fera, garou should suffer than crawl - for long time. For all the shit Garou did to them and to the whole world.
                          5) When they fight against same-level creature from other splut they do not need to use tactics that much. No, I like and respect tacticians, but if you need it more than you enemies - you are weak and inferior creature.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                            There are such topics in Exalted section, so I want to start this one. I'm actually DON'T like Garou. On the hater level. But... I would like to ead about why people can root to them.


                            This is a complicated question because what are you asking? why do we like the Garou or WtA: the game? Because thats two different answers.

                            Why i like WtA? Because is the best game about hubris from OPP/WW. Unlike other OPP games about hubris the important thing to remember about privilege/hubris is that you dont need cosmic power to drive the point home, you just need contrast and said contrast is inescapable and subtle in their relationship with their kinfolk and the effect Garou society have on the garou themselves that puts them in a position of privilege and power with little accountability.

                            Obviously thats no the themes the authors went for it but something i have learned is that the authors intend on OPP games is to be ignored because people do come with better ones. The technocracy as an example, in their their falling in drive the point they wanted to make home made mage a better games by accident more than by design.

                            So on WtA, what i like is on one part the contrast that shines through of a society of barbarians in modern times. The game has a timeless theme of "Good intention dont make you a good guy".

                            The fact that the Garou nation while having a objectively good goal (saving the world) is so flaw, to me, is part of the meat of the game. You (the player) are part of the Garou nation and have to work alongside it. There is decent people in it but also plenty (like a whole tribe name the fianna) of either useless assholes and the crux of the argument is how much you gonna compromise to achieve your goal.

                            You can always take the moral high ground and draw your line on the sand and say "no, screw you guys" but that doesnt help anyone on the long term really. You become a foot note on the Garou nation history and said Garou nation continues to be as shitty as it is.

                            I have a post that i explain my appeal of WtA the game in a very inspired frenzy of words but paraphrasing

                            "That for me is the horror of werewolf the decision you make and how seductive the garou society is for a garou. "Be a good crusader, kill the wyrm and anything standing in your way and you will get honor, power and be a hero and be right....just dont think too much. Live fast and die young in the name of our war without changing a damn thing of this vicious circle and then an eternity in valhalla awaits you" thats the speech of the garou nation at large. And the horror comes on how many garou buy it."

                            Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
                            2)Yes werewolves are full of bigotry and racism, but their enemies are full of bigotry and racism against them too. And the other fera were ill-mannered towards the Garou even before the war of Rage. This is the nature of nature and this is the nature of nature's shapeshifting children, your blood my life, your devastation my presevation, its only natural that kind of manner to extend to in their society and their religion. A religion that proves true though, look what humans do to the world, look what the children of the wyrm do to mother earth, so yes Garou have a plenty of reasons to be violent both righteous and wicked ones.


                            Wow.....thats.....just wow..... Well this is an example of the Garou indoctrination. Where ill-manners justifies extinction war......wow. No, just no. Garou arent right nor justified by any definition of the word even the setting both acknowledges that and even by the standard of their religion they were out of place on the war of Rage. By the standard of their religion Gaia is all knowing and all wise, yet the garou decided they knew better than her when she appointed them for a specific role and they took all the roles as defenders of Gaia from the other fera.

                            Also, crossover aside funnily enough thats not true. The enemies of the Garou, the Black Spiral Dancers, are way more tolerant and accepting than the Garou themselves. They will take anyone who would walk the spiral and they will kill and possibly skull fuck (maybe not in that order) anyone even themselves. So in a twisted way they are equal opportunist skull-fuckers.

                            Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                            3) They like to act as they are big shit, but they have no actual crossover wins? On the high level they seem to be weak.
                            Eh, Cannon crossovers are bullshit from the get got anyway. Any metaplot involving crossover is mostly decided by what splat is more popular (or the need of the metaplot) than by any degree of common sense. You got things like Blood Treachery which made 0 sense in so many ways but was decided because vampires were more popular than mages. If your measure of how good a game is by how it matches in canon crossover that's your prerogative.

                            Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
                            You see maybe in older times the garou were seemed to be idiotic, but in the modern world its exactly the opposite, can't say the same for the other splats though.
                            No, Garou as whole both ancient and modern are still idiotic because they are a product of their society. A society that glorifies sacrifice in battle and shuns other option with dealing with problems, a dogmatic society that chew young garou and makes them not question the glorified past. A society that gives garou an easy out because in the end they are scare of living, its drills into their heads that war is all they are in for and thus most young garou are scare of having to live and probe that they arent as good as their society makes them to be. So it makes songs about dying in glorious battle and Garou die content they die with honor and shove the problems that plague them are for the next ones to deal with.

                            The struggle of the Garou is whats good about them. Is living in this society that tempts you so much with glory, purpose and privilege as long as you dont question it but at the same times fails in making things better. Is trying to improve the Garou nation one small battle at the time while compromising yourself just a little more. Make the hard choices just so things are a little easier for the next generation.
                            Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 08-31-2017, 05:34 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Just chiming in...
                              Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                              2)as well as their hate to vampires. We as players know that at least Camarilia bloodsakers in-mass are mostly normal guys, and all this connection to Wyrm is just shit from old 1st ed days.
                              Originally posted by Story Letter View Post

                              2)No, camarilla are not normal guys, they pretend they are, they are still rutheless monsters that cling to humanity only in order not to lose themselves entirely to the beast, even toreador who are admirers of humanity time and again don't actually love it.
                              This. 100% agreed that the Cam is not just a bunch of "mostly normal guys". That statement isn't remotely true. You can't list has-to-eat-people as just some sort of alternative-diet. It's a fact of Vampire existence.

                              Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
                              The garou don't usually smell wyrm on vampires physically, usually, They mostly smell it with the sense wyrm gift which automatically makes them target because vampires do spread corruption. Unfortunately for vampires the wyrm touches anything in the matterial world that represents its presence or its nature, the same happens with werewolves that eat people or enter the thrall of the wyrm.
                              It doesn't really have to do with the edition of the game, its just how the wyrm enters in your very being.
                              Worth noting, Garou never physically smell Wyrm-taint on people. Wyrm-taint isn't a physical thing. And it makes complete sense why Vampires should smell of the Wyrm within the Werewolf cosmology. Even Vampires admit/think they're cursed. They have the Beast riding them, driving them to commit inhumane acts of violence and degradation.

                              Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                              4) So, Fera should be nice to those who slayed almost all their kind? F*ck this. Really, the World with such protectors dosn't deserve to exist. It's better to be kings in hell
                              Well, in fairness, that slaying took place in prehistory (mostly). And issues have popped up in more recent history, but generally at least a couple of hundred years ago. At some point, yea the Fera and the Garou should realize the world is at stake and work together. Harboring grudges at the cost of the literal world is pretty dumb (from both sides).

                              Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                              2) Again, I still hope they will changed it. Sense Wyrm does not shows mages and fairies, you know? Let's no put this shit to vamps. We live in freackin PC-era.
                              3) Proof? Seriously know, I never heard about this.
                              4) After what this motherf*ckers did? I think for average Fera, garou should suffer than crawl - for long time. For all the shit Garou did to them and to the whole world.
                              5) When they fight against same-level creature from other splut they do not need to use tactics that much. No, I like and respect tacticians, but if you need it more than you enemies - you are weak and inferior creature.
                              2) Sense Wyrm has nothing to do with a "PC-era". It senses soul corruption. Mages in general don't suffer from it. Nephandi do. Some Changelings even do, but in general they don't because they shouldn't in-Setting. I'm not sure why the idea of Wyrm-taint bothers you so much.
                              3) Balor was part of Changeling/Fianna backstory stuff.
                              4) And that's the sort of thought process that leads to the WoD being in the state it's in.
                              5) This is just silly. Being a pack creature does not make an individual "inferior". What does that even mean? WoD doesn't have "levels".
                              Last edited by idpersona; 09-01-2017, 09:53 AM.


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