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Why do you like WtA?

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  • #16
    The struggle of the Garou is whats good about them. Is living in this society that tempts you so much with glory, purpose and privilege as long as you dont question it but at the same times fails in making things better. Is trying to improve the Garou nation one small battle at the time while compromising yourself just a little more. Make the hard choices just so things are a little easier for the next generation.
    Yep. That's why I so like to see Garou when they suffer like Rambo from st Blood. Broken, despaired, who thought they tried their best but who got in fact only pain and and suffers. Cuz what they deserve.
    Seriously, something on this level of despair (look at the girl's eyes)
    Last edited by Lashet; 08-31-2017, 05:55 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lashet View Post
      Yep. That's why I so like to see Garou when they suffer like Rambo from st Blood. Broken, despaired, who thought they tried their best but who got in fact only pain and and suffers. Cuz what they deserve.
      Seriously, something on this level of despair (look at the girl's eyes)
      Ooookaay *slightly steps away* i think we have a miss-understanding here. My point was that the meat of the game doesnt come from battle or even physical violence (or even the threat of death) but from the struggle of working with people you find morally objectionable in the hopes of changing things. It doesnt come from one big battle against the wyrm (which i would argue is not even that important) but from the small victories. The small changes that may build up to large changes in the Nation.

      Is not about terror, or being broken or even despair but about seeing the Wheel the garou have trapped themselves into and decide whether to join them or try to change the wheel. Is about risking doing things that may risk branding you a coward, a society of warriors, not only to your contemporaries but your future generations.

      Because even if you "First blood-them like Rambo from st Blood. Broken, despaired, who thought they tried their best but who got in fact only pain and and suffers. Cuz what they deserve." Thats what the Garou are conditioned to think is a good dead. Dying in battle is a warriors death, even resisting torture is doing their duty and thats a good way to go for them.

      The average Garou would die and said to himself "well at least i honored my ancestor" and be content without ever thinking that there might have been a better way.

      As a side note, you seem to have a fixation or at least a axe to grind with the Garou being tortured. So why make a thread about why people like the Garou?
      Last edited by LokiRavenSpeak; 08-31-2017, 06:34 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by LokiRavenSpeak View Post

        Ooookaay *slightly steps away* i think we have a miss-understanding here.
        The average Garou would die and said to himself "well at least i honored my ancestor" and be content without ever thinking that there might have been a better way.

        As a side note, you seem to have a fixation or at least a axe to grind with the Garou being tortured. So why make a thread about why people like the Garou?
        In turn my point is also not _only_ about tortures (at least not about physical ones). It's also about shame depression, despair and mental suffering. When you think you tried you best and you really did - but no.For all your work people will spit in your face. All your sacrificesupport were for nothing. You have no one and nothing. It'seems about something deeply destructive. If I can be poetic a bit - sone thing what will burn your soul out of you and slowly broke. Physical pain is a good thing for it bUT is not the main part.
        That'said what I wish for Garou.
        As for why I started this thread - cuz I used to like WtA when I just found out about Word. Then they dissapointed me very hard. And I really can't see how people can like it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Lashet View Post
          And I really can't see how people can like it.
          You asked why people like it.

          People give you reasons(LOTS of them).

          You still fail to understand.

          End the thread?

          Because now I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here.


          PENTEX SUCKS.

          I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lashet View Post
            1) Their hypocrisy (the world become such shitty place cuz of them mostly)
            A common failing of large-scale societies. Just consider how much more hypocritical humanity is when it gets a good deal and rests on it...

            2) Bigotry and racism (toward many Fera, many other supers - esp vampires)
            Not getting along with the Fera is a deep flaw that the game presents as in need of reconciling if anything is actually going to get done. However, one should note that killing vampires isn't bigotry - it's pest control.

            And even vampires would probably agree with that.

            3) They like to act as they are big shit, but they have no actual crossover wins? On the high level they seem to be weak.
            The shaky and cracktastic nature of crossovers having been discussed already, one should note that they have taken care of problems of their own. The Storm Eater of the Old West and Seventh Generation cult, for example. Also, on a day to day basis, I don't think that vampires or mages would fair too well against fomori, gorgons, or drones in the numbers that the world seems to throw the way of the werewolves. Hell, Mage even dummies down normal spirit attack damage from aggravated to lethal in its core, explicitly citing that the Werewolf approach is too dangerous for mages to deal with on a regular basis.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Lashet View Post
              1) Their hypocrisy (the world become such shitty place cuz of them mostly)
              2) Bigotry and racism (toward many Fera, many other supers - esp vampires)
              3) They like to act as they are big shit, but they have no actual crossover wins? On the high level they seem to be weak.
              4) Their constant whining is just annoying.
              after all, for me they are really like those school nerds who one day came to school with guns.
              I will be glad to see them like this cuz this how they deserved feel themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc2OvrpzjvM


              it only make it cooler.


              -'' When the winds howl and the Storms rage, where will you run?''-

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Fat Larry View Post

                You asked why people like it.

                People give you reasons(LOTS of them).

                You still fail to understand.

                End the thread?

                Because now I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
                I answered LokiRaven question.
                I get the reasons, i just still can't get how them overcome all the flaws.

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                • #23
                  Anyway for me the main issue is that Garou was presented as the good guys. AFAIK there was even commercial for environmental protection organisations in WtA books of first edition. Really? These assholes are poster-boys? Who made a FEW genocides and completely failed their mission. They are not Heroes. That's why I'd like to them suffering.
                  UPD: What is the biggest werewolves wins? Balor and 7th Generation Cult. What else? I mean canonical wins, without which Apocalypses could start early?
                  Last edited by Lashet; 09-01-2017, 07:23 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Storm Eater, Kupala, THE EATER OF SOULS ''Dood that's even better than killing an antediluvean''. Probably Set. And many many other wonderful enemies.

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                    • #25
                      Kupala
                      Tzimizy saved him (I like this guys))

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                        Tzimizy saved him (I like this guys))
                        Partially, his ritual never finished-succeeded-whatever.
                        Last edited by Story Letter; 09-01-2017, 09:28 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Look...Lashet. No one is going to convince you to like the Garou. I personally don't care if you do. I doubt any others really do. But it seems an odd place to come (the Werewolf forums) to gripe about them and go on and on about how you want them to suffer (which is a bit creepy).

                          In Setting they are the heroes, even if they're tragic ones. The failings of the past only feed into what the stakes of the Apocalypse are. They've had more than a few major setbacks. But trying to write off or outright ignoring they're victories (which Story Letter listed some) seems intellectually dishonest. *shrug*


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                          • #28
                            But trying to write off or outright ignoring they're victories (which Story Letter listed some) seems intellectually dishonest.
                            I ignored only Kupala since it's hardly epic win. I would be glad to know anything also.
                            In Setting they are the heroes, even if they're tragic ones.
                            Only from their POV. I we look at WoD as at setting, there is another (lot of them). + just common sense (after all this fails...)
                            The failings of the past only feed into what the stakes of the Apocalypse are.
                            And it's all their fault. Don't blame humankind. Humans acted just like humans. Garou could not wait anything else from humanity (esp after Imperium). Garou should consider this.
                            how you want them to suffer (which is a bit creepy).
                            As for me, they deserved it more than any other splat. For all mess their people did. Make them like Jayne Pool after "honeymoon" (this! i won't disturb you with this comparisons anymore - seems I found a god example)
                            Last edited by Lashet; 09-01-2017, 10:48 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
                              Storm Eater, Kupala, THE EATER OF SOULS ''Dood that's even better than killing an antediluvean''. Probably Set. And many many other wonderful enemies.
                              Talons of the Wyrm and Zmei, too. Generally, though, this is meant to be something that player characters do, so the spotlight isn't very hogged.
                              Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 09-01-2017, 10:48 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                                I ignored only Kupala since it's hardly epic win. I would be glad to know anything also.
                                Only from their POV. I we look at WoD as at setting, there is another (lot of them). + just common sense (after all this fails...)
                                And Mage only makes sense for Mage. You can be a hero in Werewolf, if you make the effort to do it. In Vampire, you're still stuck being a net negative no matter what you do, because it's entirely constructed around giving up and just riding things out for as long as you can. This is Vampire's thing, and it's welcome to it, but other games have other priorities and setups. If you don't like them, do what I do and quietly write them out of your games, homebrew material that you produce, whatever. When it comes to aggressive visitors coming by to lob a hot mess of hate, though, I'm rather tired of having to re-enact my earliest days on the WW forums, and I don't think I'm alone in this.

                                And it's all their fault. Don't blame humankind. Humans acted just like humans. Garou could not wait anything else from humanity (esp after Imperium). Garou should consider this.
                                The Impergium was thousands of years ago. You can't keep riding that shit as an excuse on either front.

                                As for me, they deserved it more than any other splat. For all mess their people did.
                                More than Vampires and Mages? You do realize that each game presents the characters as being in a society that has fucked up, right? Garou are even more down on themselves for it, but vampires just shrug and stop caring if they even ever cared to begin with, and mages are likely to see things they did that were horrible as necessary or even positive. Even the fae that the changelings venerate as their ancestors fucked up terribly, given the recent Dark Ages WoD offering from not too long ago, slinging around weaponized sources of Banality against each other until it came back to bite them in the ass so hard they had to either hide in human reincarnation processes or flee the world for Arcadia.

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