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  • Changeling Crossover Question

    Not sure if this works here, or if I should have it in the Changeling board. But I just got CtD20, and I was curious....chimerical gold and silver, think it would work as normal gold and silver on the Changing Breeds or no because its chimerical? I'm thinking of tossing some Changelings into my WtA game, so they're the ones on the guest slot. So I want to know more from a WtA perspective then anything else. I'm tempted to say no because its not "real" silver and gold, but I might be off on this.
    Last edited by CeltSPZ; 12-05-2017, 08:07 PM.

  • #2
    It's not real until... the Changeling is calling upon the Wyrd or the Changing Breed is enchanted.

    Although I doubt those metal would be used anyway, when you could for example have a bblade made of solidified Moonlight

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    • #3
      It is not. For all WtA purposes, any chimerical thing isn't "real".

      There is a "but", though. From the CB perspective, dreams are linked to some Realms in the Umbra. So it depends on how you will choose to deal with the Dreaming.

      Assuming the Dreaming as "Umbral Realm", Changelings and chimerical beings become just another kind of spirit, though with peculiar rules. In that case, chimerical metal isn't "real" in the form that Changelings present, but can be found on the Umbra as any other kind of spiritual object. You can assume the Dream as being another layer of the Umbra, like the Astral, Middle and Dark Umbrae, with its own Penumbra, and Changelings as spirits have a Charm to exist at Mater and Penumbra simultaneously. Chimerical objects are in this other Penumbra.

      Going for a Changeling-Is-Right-About-Itself cross-over, the Dreaming is another thing entirely, with only surface semblance to the Umbrae, and Werewolves can't reach it at all without the powers of the fae. In that case, chimerical material isn't "real" to the degree a Garou would call reality, and only while Enchanted they would be able to interact with those things in the way the Changelings do.

      For Aggravated damage purposes, when a Changeling makes you interact with chimerical things, the Changeling is putting preternatural energy in manifesting that. Reality isn't an issue, actually, because the circumstances themselves guarantee that the material will have its properties.

      So, long story short, just in case it is for Damage purposes: if the Garou sees silver, it is silver. If the Garou sees plastic, it is plastic.


      Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
        It is not. For all WtA purposes, any chimerical thing isn't "real".

        There is a "but", though. From the CB perspective, dreams are linked to some Realms in the Umbra. So it depends on how you will choose to deal with the Dreaming.

        Assuming the Dreaming as "Umbral Realm", Changelings and chimerical beings become just another kind of spirit, though with peculiar rules. In that case, chimerical metal isn't "real" in the form that Changelings present, but can be found on the Umbra as any other kind of spiritual object. You can assume the Dream as being another layer of the Umbra, like the Astral, Middle and Dark Umbrae, with its own Penumbra, and Changelings as spirits have a Charm to exist at Mater and Penumbra simultaneously. Chimerical objects are in this other Penumbra.

        Going for a Changeling-Is-Right-About-Itself cross-over, the Dreaming is another thing entirely, with only surface semblance to the Umbrae, and Werewolves can't reach it at all without the powers of the fae. In that case, chimerical material isn't "real" to the degree a Garou would call reality, and only while Enchanted they would be able to interact with those things in the way the Changelings do.

        For Aggravated damage purposes, when a Changeling makes you interact with chimerical things, the Changeling is putting preternatural energy in manifesting that. Reality isn't an issue, actually, because the circumstances themselves guarantee that the material will have its properties.

        So, long story short, just in case it is for Damage purposes: if the Garou sees silver, it is silver. If the Garou sees plastic, it is plastic.
        Werewolf doesn't really treat the Dreaming as an Umbral Realm or anything having to do with the Umbra. The Arcadia Gateway's relationship is kept extremely ambiguous, and changelings are generally presented as something odd that doesn't quite fit in, with fewer assumptions made about them than other games.

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        • #5
          What about Changelings and the umbral denizens ? Can they affect them with any kind of domain or combinations of domains ?
          What about gifts related to the fae realm, that are being taught by chimera spirits sbut do affect changeling or changeling spirits or changelings in their fae mien ?
          Last edited by Story Letter; 12-07-2017, 06:43 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Story Letter View Post
            What about Changelings and the umbral denizens ? Can they affect them with any kind of domain or combinations of domains ?
            What about gifts related to the fae realm, that are being taught by chimera spirits sbut do affect changeling or changeling spirits or changelings in their fae mien ?
            If your ST doesn't have you use Fae to affect other monsters, you'd use Actor. And also likely either need to be one of the fae that can interact with spirits (such as Nunnehi) or else happen upon a connection from the Dreaming into the Umbra, assuming that the spirit hasn't materialized.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CeltSPZ View Post
              Not sure if this works here, or if I should have it in the Changeling board. But I just got CtD20, and I was curious....chimerical gold and silver, think it would work as normal gold and silver on the Changing Breeds or no because its chimerical? I'm thinking of tossing some Changelings into my WtA game, so they're the ones on the guest slot. So I want to know more from a WtA perspective then anything else. I'm tempted to say no because its not "real" silver and gold, but I might be off on this.
              I think once the Changeling calls on the Wyrd or the Garou is enchanted, that treating the chimerical silver/gold as real is fair game.

              You can also add another layer to it and let the damage be unsoakable chimerical damage if you think pulling "real" (i.e. Agg) silver weapons out of thin air is a bit too much for your Werewolf PCs. That would keep the spirit of both games somewhat I think.


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              • #8
                I was going to make an arguement that Chimera are basically solid aspects of the dreaming, thus not do agg/unsoakable.. but the more I thought about it the mythic ressonence of the Dreaming would probably treat it similar enough so.. maybe Soakable agg?

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                • #9
                  The thing is once a werewolf is Enchanted or the Changeling calls on the Wyrd, things fall on the purview of the Dream, because both situations are about the Dream becoming Factual. As a rule of thumb, if a Human would take Chimerical damage, it is fair to assume that a Werewolf would also (and so treat differently the damage on Chimerical and Factual scales, as per Changeling). But if a Human would take Factual damage from the effect, them the Garou should react to this silver as silver proper in all damage aspects. It could make a difference for rituals and such, but never for damage. The werewolf's body reacted to make it real, anyways.

                  PS.: Sorry if I misnamed any term, I only read Changeling in Portuguese, while I read the others mostly in english.


                  Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.

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