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How do Gifts and Rites come into being?

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  • How do Gifts and Rites come into being?

    The question is set, which I don't know the answer to, but let me explain a little bit. In the Renown table there are a couple of passages, that one could get Renown for being a genius, inventing new Gifts and/or Rites, it's terrific, but how does a shifter set this new Gift/Rite into being? (S)He gets up one day, says I have a new idea for a Rite, gets the moves for it together, says it should do that and that, if the shifter is a Garou or another one who has a pack, then the pack accepts it, it's a custom among a few shifters, it expands to a couple of other, and so on, but it should be tuned in spiritually as I know it, how is it tuned in, how is it accepted as a Rite and not just a couple of moves? I know anthropologically, how a ritual would be accepted in a given culture group, but the mechanics of this game work as I understand it a little bit otherwise. So please explain it to me, and as you do it, please explain also how one could invent a Gift? Because I think it isn't so, that for example a Garou gets one day up, the bulb (or if (s)he is not a GW, a camp fire) lights up in his/her brain, goes to the Umbra, speaks with the given spirit maybe, and the spirit says, "I'm cool with it, but I don't know anything like it, you know it, why don't you teach it", and the Garou says "yeah, honorable spirit, but I don't know it", sooo this sounds to me a little goofy, how would it be really done? Thank you all for your answers!

  • #2
    A new gifts is done IC by finding a spirit with the knowledge of this 'new gift' and then begging/cajouling/forcing it to release its secrets to you... Now considering that in theory Garou have 'mapped' out pretty much all the spirits willing to teach gifts over time. its not an easy feat.

    Creating a new rite basically means that you'll go to an epic trek to convince the relevant spirit broods that the they indeed should empower the new rite in question.

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    • #3
      Thank you for your answer, Blue Fox!
      The question about the creation of a 'new Rite' is clear, but for the 'new Gift', basically you're saying that a player creates one, discusses it with his ST, if he says it's alright, he creates a minor story how the player's character summons a couple of spirits asks them who could know this Gift, and after a couple of discussions the character can leave for a journey into the Umbra to find the spirit in question who can teach this already existing gift, from which no one knew about till this very day?

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      • #4
        It is in theory possible for a Garou to actually Create a gift, but this requires much wisdom, learning by the words of the Incarnae and spending a hue amount of time n the Umbra. Otherwise you are indeed questing to find done very rare spirit that possesses powers that could be the Gift that you are seeking to bring into existence.

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        • #5
          Alternately, if a Garou ends up on friendly terms with another Fera and learns/garou-izes one of THEIR gifts that might qualify.

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          • #6
            As a rule of thumb from Player's Guide to the Changing Breeds, gifts of other Fera should be considered a level higher than they are listed for that Fera. They are impossible to learn, if the physiology of the fera is essential to the gift working.


            Besides that, yes, it seem that in the game world you pretty much could learn anything that a spirit can do, if a spirit teaches you. So goes the legend, not sure where it was printed. But this makes for a whole lot of trouble - mechanically. Spirits have Charms, basically described to be used by NPCs and left for the ST to flesh out. Garou use Gifts, relatively defined for use by PCs and players. If really anything a spirit does or could do in a game could be taught to a garou, it would be a mess. Storyteller's Handbook (page 55) states, that spirits might be able to teach gifts without a rank requirement - stating that the in-game tradition (and Gaia's will) about rank requirement is simply for game balancing. There is no inherent meta-plot reason, it exists. And given the huge discrepancies in the power of gifts, it might be okay to allow some gifts at lower levels.
            In any case, why has not garou ever turned "Alter Reality" Charm into a Gift?
            Well, probably because it is over-powered...
            Instead, there are certain effects, like going unnoticed, that have been turned into several gifts.Why?
            Because authors didn't check if that particular cool game effect was already around.

            Also, the Player's Guide to Garou has rules on creating Gifts and Rites starting on page 127.

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            • #7
              Alter Reality is a lvl 6 Gift and requires 3 Permanent Gnosis per use. Or something. Plus, wyldlings are so chaotic that Gaia's will is one of the few thoughts that remains constant in their minds for more than a few seconds.
              Last edited by Mercurial; 04-19-2017, 07:24 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
                Alter Reality is a lvl 6 Gift and requires 3 Permanent Gnosis per use. Or something.
                Not spoken with confidence, I see. Also, the Wyld Charm name is Break Reality; Alter Reality is a power of Dream Maker banes that's never been given any mechanical definition, anywhere. in the past 20 years. You can, however, make use of Break Reality by picking up a Wyldstone from various Umbral reaches; this is an explicit power of the fetish in question..

                Another thing to consider is that spirits don't need to know or use the Gift or even any power that's anything like it in order to teach a Gift.

                Plus, wyldlings are so chaotic that Gaia's will is one of the few thoughts that remains constant in their minds for more than a few seconds.
                It's up for debate if their thoughts resemble anything relatable. They probably won't be concerned overly much with Gaia, at any rate, since Vortices are purer Triatic manifestations.

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                • #9
                  Spirit don't teach charms they teach lessons that adapted to the nature of Fera become Gifts. So a Garou who wants a custom gift would after the ooc stuff use his knowledge of the spirits to try and find the right one who could teach the concept.




                  Also Customize Totems and Nushi can buy whatever charm the STs allow so if you really want pcs to have access to it..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    Another thing to consider is that spirits don't need to know or use the Gift or even any power that's anything like it in order to teach a Gift.
                    This.

                    One thing I've always found interesting it's that Gifts and "what the spirit can do" (in terms of Charms) not only does not need to correlate, but it rarely does. How many spirits have gift-like charms?, and how many Charms were never Gifted?. I'm no expert, but I see little correlation between Charms and Gifts.

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