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  • #16
    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

    I remember him. He was fun. A pity what happened to him in Rokea.

    I never read that book. I'm assuming he was eaten...that sucks.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
      Hmm. OK then. Thanks for clearing that up.

      What did they do with the Kitsune, out of curiosity?


      Made them super common. I mean they also screwed them up with the whole Giftiplines bullshit but More Kitsune!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Onkwe View Post


        I never read that book. I'm assuming he was eaten...that sucks.
        The opening comic was him and a few other ocean oriented Garou - at least one Glasswalker and I can't remember the others off the top of my head and don't have the book handy - out off the coast of Australia (I want to say all or most of them were RAAustralia characters) trying to make contact with Rokea. Unfortunately, they succeed. The Wendigo guy is, IIRC, the last one left alive, and you don't actually see him die, but from the way the last panel looked, if he lived they need to change his deed name to Luckiest Son of a Bitch on Two Legs. Personally, I like to think he made it, but I've always been a bit of a Pollyanna.


        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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        • #19
          Native americans have served as american or canadian soldiers afield since at least World War II, who's to say some globe-trotting homid or kinfolk did not leave chilldren unknowingly in distant shores through the decades since?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

            The opening comic was him and a few other ocean oriented Garou - at least one Glasswalker and I can't remember the others off the top of my head and don't have the book handy - out off the coast of Australia (I want to say all or most of them were RAAustralia characters) trying to make contact with Rokea. Unfortunately, they succeed. The Wendigo guy is, IIRC, the last one left alive, and you don't actually see him die, but from the way the last panel looked, if he lived they need to change his deed name to Luckiest Son of a Bitch on Two Legs. Personally, I like to think he made it, but I've always been a bit of a Pollyanna.
            Spoilers for an ST's portion of a 17 year old book!

            The adventure module in the same book confirms that he made it back to shore by using Sky Running, but he had a Qyrling in his head, too.
            Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 02-14-2018, 04:55 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
              Native americans have served as american or canadian soldiers afield since at least World War II, who's to say some globe-trotting homid or kinfolk did not leave chilldren unknowingly in distant shores through the decades since?

              THis too, as I said before spirits will claim theirown.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Lian View Post
                So No Tribes functionally exist except the Bonegnawers and Glasswalkers right?
                Originally posted by Onkwe View Post
                Wendigo could travel to other places. One of my favorite Wendigo NPCs was the surfer guy in Rage Across Australia.
                Sure, a Wendigo can travel. Doesn't mean that his grand children, when raised in Australia for two generations, with no exposure to Wendigo culture would still be considered Wendigo kinfolk.

                Obviously, Liam is exaggerating my original post with his comment. But he is right, there is a reason why the Bone Gnawers are second in numbers only to the BSD, and why the Wendigo are all but extinct. It's exactly this point.

                The struggle for cultural identity is a huge topic for native Americans and a lot of other groups that are embedded in other larger groups. That said, I find it was the wrong move, from revised edition onward to downplay this aspect in favor of a Out-of-.game more political correct tolerance.

                And yes, this in consequence means, that a white person shouldn't play a Wendigo in LARP. Is this a unfair restriction? I don't think so, it is life.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post


                  THis too, as I said before spirits will claim theirown.
                  What may lead to interesting situations for a lone Wendigo - or family, in those cases with two generations or more between them - of mixed stock whose main connection to its native american heritage/tribal identity comes through their totem.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                    What may lead to interesting situations for a lone Wendigo - or family, in those cases with two generations or more between them - of mixed stock whose main connection to its native american heritage/tribal identity comes through their totem.
                    Which leads to a number of different situations and points of view on the matter.

                    For Evan, it was necessary to prove himself several times, because even when one Wendigo sept and their Elders accepted him as Wendigo, other still needed their own proof. An Elder Theurge in of the tribe novels, iirc, stated, that spirits have a multitude of opinions and agendas and that he wouldn't have risen to Elder rank, if he wouldn't make up his own mind over things, instead of taking anything a spirit states as fact. If that extends to Tribal Totem Avatars ? Well, hopefully, for they aren't without fail.

                    Also, ancestry wasn't the only requirement, for that his ancestors had Wendigo among them was (I'd guess) easily proofed, once it was discovered.

                    Obviously, they accept someone into the tribe with the Rite of Passage. But it is still up to the garou to make up the quest for the Rite, and judge whether or not it was successful. That, in general, doesn't mean, that the garou is a paragon of tribal virtues. Because, there are still tribe members that defect to become Ronin, to become members of other tribes, to be become BSD. Also there are breakers of the Litany and cowards and what not. And, while the tribal totem would have accepted them into the tribe at some point, the tribal totem also allows the tribe to cast members out with specific rites.

                    So, this in consequence means, that "the spirits claim their own" is not an absolute. It is more like and endorsement of sorts, aimed at the tribe, who are the ones to decide whether or not a garou gets accepted or not. And this can mean, that one sept accepts you as a Wendigo, and one other does not extend this position.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                      Which leads to a number of different situations and points of view on the matter.

                      For Evan, it was necessary to prove himself several times, because even when one Wendigo sept and their Elders accepted him as Wendigo, other still needed their own proof. An Elder Theurge in of the tribe novels, iirc, stated, that spirits have a multitude of opinions and agendas and that he wouldn't have risen to Elder rank, if he wouldn't make up his own mind over things, instead of taking anything a spirit states as fact. If that extends to Tribal Totem Avatars ? Well, hopefully, for they aren't without fail.

                      Also, ancestry wasn't the only requirement, for that his ancestors had Wendigo among them was (I'd guess) easily proofed, once it was discovered.

                      Obviously, they accept someone into the tribe with the Rite of Passage. But it is still up to the garou to make up the quest for the Rite, and judge whether or not it was successful. That, in general, doesn't mean, that the garou is a paragon of tribal virtues. Because, there are still tribe members that defect to become Ronin, to become members of other tribes, to be become BSD. Also there are breakers of the Litany and cowards and what not. And, while the tribal totem would have accepted them into the tribe at some point, the tribal totem also allows the tribe to cast members out with specific rites.

                      So, this in consequence means, that "the spirits claim their own" is not an absolute. It is more like and endorsement of sorts, aimed at the tribe, who are the ones to decide whether or not a garou gets accepted or not. And this can mean, that one sept accepts you as a Wendigo, and one other does not extend this position.
                      True, far from saying it is - my interest was more on the strangeness of the situation of someone who's both closer to native american stock than Evan (less than a century of separation) and yet more isolated (born and grown in another continent), with only the totem's inhuman perspective as gateway into its garou heritage. That should lead to peculiar results, at least without some interaction/visitation to nnattive Wendigo through moon bridges or other forms of contact.
                      Last edited by Baaldam; 02-14-2018, 08:32 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by heinrich View Post

                        Sure, a Wendigo can travel. Doesn't mean that his grand children, when raised in Australia for two generations, with no exposure to Wendigo culture would still be considered Wendigo kinfolk.

                        Obviously, Liam is exaggerating my original post with his comment. But he is right, there is a reason why the Bone Gnawers are second in numbers only to the BSD, and why the Wendigo are all but extinct. It's exactly this point.

                        The struggle for cultural identity is a huge topic for native Americans and a lot of other groups that are embedded in other larger groups. That said, I find it was the wrong move, from revised edition onward to downplay this aspect in favor of a Out-of-.game more political correct tolerance.

                        And yes, this in consequence means, that a white person shouldn't play a Wendigo in LARP. Is this a unfair restriction? I don't think so, it is life.

                        No, Wendigo and to a lesser extent the Uktena actually have subculture keeping things active, and Stargazers should be crazy active. If you can show me something equivalent for Silver Fangs, Shadowlords, Black Furies or children of Gaia. Conversely Hakken should be the real tribe vs Shadowlords.

                        Fianna have an active culture, Get kind of do. Glasswalkers seem to solidly have something as do Bonegnawers.

                        And obviously silent striders should be completely extinct thanks to Set.


                        And HOW do Red Talons work in your setup at all?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                          True, far from saying it is - my interest was more on the strangeness of the situation of someone who's both closer to native american stock than Evan (less than a century of separation) and yet more isolated (born and grown in another continent), with only the totem's inhuman perspective as gateway into its garou heritage. That should lead to peculiar results, at least without some interaction/visitation to nnattive Wendigo through moon bridges or other forms of contact.
                          Well, I would argue, that such a person can't be/become a Wendigo.
                          Without proper education (even with constant contact with the tribal totem avatar, it hardly is proper), and without garou performing a porper Wendigo Rite of Passage, the garou would, in my opinion, not be a Wendigo. Then, I also would think, that Wendigo would take such a person, and bring him/her, possible against her will, to a Wendigo sept to be educated. Members of other tribes would also try to contact the Wendigo an make that happen.

                          However, if that for some reason wasn't happening, it might be the start of something new. I mean, if a group of people still had Grandfahter Thunder as their totem, and contact to him, but were otherwise separated from their brethren and their culture, they might create something like, well the Hakken. But, there just seems to be a critical number of garou for this to work. A single person being brought up with only spirits as advisers would certainly be something unique - but like Evan, wouldn't be accepted right away.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Lian View Post
                            No, Wendigo and to a lesser extent the Uktena actually have subculture keeping things active, and Stargazers should be crazy active. If you can show me something equivalent for Silver Fangs, Shadowlords, Black Furies or children of Gaia. Conversely Hakken should be the real tribe vs Shadowlords.

                            Fianna have an active culture, Get kind of do. Glasswalkers seem to solidly have something as do Bonegnawers.

                            And obviously silent striders should be completely extinct thanks to Set.

                            And HOW do Red Talons work in your setup at all?
                            Are we misreading each other?

                            You say all this tribes have an active culture. I agree, and I further postulate, that you must be part of that culture to be part of the tribe.

                            So, where is the problem with the Red Talons or any tribe for that matter?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                              Are we misreading each other?

                              You say all this tribes have an active culture. I agree, and I further postulate, that you must be part of that culture to be part of the tribe.

                              So, where is the problem with the Red Talons or any tribe for that matter?
                              There is no external culture for Red Talons, SIlver Fangs, Shadowlord, Children of Gaia, Black Furies and the Silent Striders culture was actively destroyed by Set. By your logic over half the tribes should be worse off than Wendigo. And the Three most common should be Bongnawers, Glasswalkers, and Stargazers. This doesn't match anything close to a reading of the books.

                              IF we are going to accept "super sekrit" cultures.. the idea that Wendigo who have actual real active living culture vs hidden ones would be "nearly extinct, is still kind of absurd, yes there aren't that many Native americans but more of them are closer to Wendigo culture than your average white person is to any tribe(Except potentially bonegnawer and glasswalker)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                                Well, I would argue, that such a person can't be/become a Wendigo.
                                Without proper education (even with constant contact with the tribal totem avatar, it hardly is proper), and without garou performing a porper Wendigo Rite of Passage, the garou would, in my opinion, not be a Wendigo. Then, I also would think, that Wendigo would take such a person, and bring him/her, possible against her will, to a Wendigo sept to be educated. Members of other tribes would also try to contact the Wendigo an make that happen.

                                However, if that for some reason wasn't happening, it might be the start of something new. I mean, if a group of people still had Grandfahter Thunder as their totem, and contact to him, but were otherwise separated from their brethren and their culture, they might create something like, well the Hakken. But, there just seems to be a critical number of garou for this to work. A single person being brought up with only spirits as advisers would certainly be something unique - but like Evan, wouldn't be accepted right away.
                                I'm more interested in the proccess and potential results, strange and "flawed" though they may be and potential drama resulting from interaction than any sense of "propriety" on what defines a tribe or not, to be honest.

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