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What would happen to this Cub?

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  • What would happen to this Cub?

    I’m currently going through the process of developing an idea for a Get of Fenris Cub, who would be honestly, rather unusual.

    The idea I’d had was for his father to be a Get Alpha, who ended up having a drunken one-night stand with a female Glasswalker Kinfolk.

    Suffice it to say, when his First Change occurred it was a bit of a shock. Unfortunately, he ended up having to make a choice. Stay with his mother among the Glasswalkers or go and search for his father amongst the Get.

    At the beginning of play, he’s still 16 and will have just found his father’s Tribe. They will most likely be able to tell that he grew up among the Glasswalkers, so they would be hesitant to take him in, if they would at all.

    The biggest reason I can think of, that would convince them to take him in, is his backgrounds. 3 in Pure Breed, 3 in Ancestors, and 1 in Spirit Heritage. He’s clearly the Alpha’s kid, so what would they do?

  • #2
    Thing is you don't get Pure Breed when you are a child of two tribes.

    But to the get its simple if you pass their hazing and rite of passage you are in, doesn't matter if you are a metis or from another tribe's stock you are in.

    It is a time for great deeds!


    • #3
      Eldagusto That’s actually a fair point, but I was under the impression that the Garou parent basically override the Kinfolk parent in that regard.


      • #4
        The thing is pure breed is a result of breeding within your tribes line without dipping out of it. Breeding with another tribes kinfolk may make you still look like the garou parent but the supernatural aspect gets diluted so you don’t have purebreed, same with if a silver fang with purebreed 5 joins say the Fenrir. They no longer have Purebreed but still looks like a silver fang.

        Makes you wonder how the silver fangs spread to multiple peoples, maybe it won’t get completely diluted if you mate with a normal human and if that kin mates with a high breeding silverfang it can b minimum breeding cubs being popped out.

        It is a time for great deeds!


        • #5
          Well, his father would have Purebreed 5, so... It’s already been diluted a good bit.


          • #6
            ....Every tribe has Lost cubs. If he wants to be judged by Fenris and his Get so be it. If he wants cockroach's blessing its there too.. as is Unicorn's, Rat's Chimera's.....


            • #7
              If your storyteller is willing to allow the character to take dots in pure breed in spite of his mother being Glass Walker kinfolk, he's got some very desirable traits that the Get would probably like to keep within their tribe, but whether they give him a chance will likely come down to whether his father wants to "own" or "disown" him. Would the father be ashamed of having knocked up a Glass Walker kinfolk woman? If the father is ambivalent, your character would probably need a "den father" or "den mother" in the sept to sponsor him and convert him into a good "Get of Fenris" cub before he even gets the chance at a rite of passage. That might take years, depending how how well he takes to the tribe's culture. You should give your character a strong motive to turn away from his mother and leave the Glass Walkers who have raised him if he's going to go full Get of Fenris.


              • #8
                Part of the idea I had, was for him to be far too violent for the Glasswalkers. Maybe he killed his mother during his First Change, maybe using his wits and technological knowledge he carbombed a Pentex exec. Either way, he isn’t going to fit in with the Glasswalkers long-term, and he’d be better suited for the Fenrir.


                • #9
                  OK first a point of order on mechanics:

                  Kinfolk don't actually have Purebreed by Tribe. Unlike Garou, nothing in the rules actually says that Kin of high breeding need to reproduce with members of their Tribe for the bonuses towards breeding true to apply. It's only Garou that have to join the Tribe of their breeding for it to matter. This is something that actually makes sense in the fiction that Garou of different Tribes would fight over kinfolk (more so in the past) to get the "best" kin.

                  As well, if you take Purebreed for a Garou PC, you need to join the Tribe of your breeding before you can get any benefit from it besides reproduction. Tribes want to get Cubs with Purebeed of their Tribe to join up, because Garou need their Tribal Totems to put their stamp of spiritual approval on their breeding for it to "count."


                  If your intent is for him to join the Fenrir... go for it. There might be some drama with his mixed birth, but the Get aren't going to turn away a Cub with Purebreed for them, and that wants to join them. They're not generally a picky Tribe about who can try to join, and surviving their initiation is a sign that the Cub deserves to be part of them.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PunkManiak View Post
                    Part of the idea I had, was for him to be far too violent for the Glasswalkers. Maybe he killed his mother during his First Change, maybe using his wits and technological knowledge he carbombed a Pentex exec. Either way, he isn’t going to fit in with the Glasswalkers long-term, and he’d be better suited for the Fenrir.
                    Too violent? Haha. GWs are urban-guerillas. They follow multiple War-Totems & fight multiple urban environments and monkeywrench, what is usually considered terrorist act by human population. They even organise agressive, militant human protest, hack the grid, blow down buildings and make raw meat paste from PX employees.

                    Killing a Kinfolk? Who really cares? Kinfolk die from the claws of their Brethren multiple times. Yes, some dishonor comes into play and that's that. During the First Change the pups can't even control themeselves. They won't throw away a great asset beacuse of something he is not responsible for.

                    I think you should work it on emotional level. Longing for father, racial puritical, radical views, etc. The Get can even come and claim their pup. They family-relationships are high priority for the Tribe.

                    Buy the Mixed Heritage (?) Flaw from the Get of Fenris Tribebook (1st Ed).


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                      Thing is you don't get Pure Breed when you are a child of two tribes.
                      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                      Kinfolk don't actually have Purebreed by Tribe.
                      Is there a source for either claim?
                      I remember Ethan Skemp writing on the old forums of White Wolf that Pure Breed is tribe specific, but why wouldn’t it be tribe specific for kinfolk either?
                      First and foremost the Pure Breed trait is specific for the character who has it. There are some rules in “Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes” how it affects the chances of any child to be born true, but besides that, the trait is specific to the character who has it. Siblings don’t need identical trait values, not even identical twins. You can make educated guesses on the Pure Breed trait of the parents of any individual, but there is no specific rule that a child of a pairing would have the arithmetical middle of its parents pure breed scores, regardless of breed form. Within the game world pure breed also isn’t objectively measured, since it is a subjective in its effect on others and random, since it grants bonus dice not automatic successes. And while the out-of-character rules state that a Silver Fang has to have a Pure Breed three rating, the Silver Fangs within the game world will have a lot of subjective rules, analysis and interpretation of heritage and so on to determine if a cub can join their ranks – this boils down to the three dots rule to have an abstract recognition of these strict rules.

                      But for a character the Pure Breed rating states how much a paragon of the tribe’s virtues and ideals one is. Meaning, that I wouldn’t allow any anti-concept to have Pure Breed and would lower the rating, if a character strives too much from the ideal of his tribe during game play. For the cub in question that means, that besides having been raised amongst GWs as a lost cub the character would still show the ideals of the tribe. Be it to strife to physical perfection, solve problems with violence, be honorable, direct, outspoken, and loyal. Value true friends over loose relationships, be interested in woodcarving and gardening over electronics, play outdoor sports instead of counterstrike and eat vegetables and meat instead of chocolate and sweets.
                      Being a person who has inherited and expresses the virtues of the Get of Fenris should have these characteristics as in-world-consequences of this Pure Breed score. Also physical characteristics like body build, skin and hair color of Norse people should be evident. But that is not essential, for even a person who lacks those, like an Asian or African person could be a paragon of the virtues that come with tribe philosophy and way of life and be members of the Get of Fenris, with some level of Pure Breed. That said, they would still be rare exceptions, probably.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
                        Killing a Kinfolk? Who really cares? Kinfolk die from the claws of their Brethren multiple times. Yes, some dishonor comes into play and that's that
                        Er, sorry, did you just not control yourself and kill my sister during seasonal party rite, where kinfolk is in attendance like every year. And you think dishonour is your problem? Wait, until my true born Rage 7 Ahroun little brother hears about this and makes his frenzy roll...


                        • #13
                          heinrich But, you see, that’s the interesting part. You either wouldn’t be able to kill this kid, or would be unwilling to, because the boy’s your 15 year old nephew.

                          You wouldn’t be willing to kill him, but you couldn’t let him stay with you.

                          (Plus, he’d more or less have been a newborn, who had no idea what was even happening.)
                          Last edited by PunkManiak; 04-10-2018, 10:59 AM.


                          • #14
                            Well, that is a whole other topic.

                            If a garou is unable to control himself, he is a danger and suffers his people to tend for his temper, that is a reason to put him down. If the sept sees a way that the garou in question, be it a cub or older garou, can be healed of his uncontrollable violent outbursts, then he may life. "Healed" meaning a level of frenzies appropriate for the local sept. The Get of Fenris might have a higher tolerance then the Children of Gaia.

                            That said, killing another person, kilfolk or garou, even human, for no reason is wrong. A crime to be punished even. There are mitigating circumstances of course, frenzy in battle is relatively accepted, especially if it is a roll to remain active after reaching Incapacitated that triggers the frenzy. But the joy over getting a Rite of Accomplishment or coitus are emotional situations a ST might ask for a rage roll, yet a frenzy isn't acceptable and death of bystanders really isn't. Here Renown penalties are one thing, but retribution and punishment are also possible. But if the offender has a habit of frenzy and bring himself in situation where he frenzies, risking the life of bystanders, garou, kin or what not, then his behavior isn't just unwise, but also dishonorable and especially punishable, for it is a weakness that he suffers his people to tend to.

                            But this whole issue wasn't on my mind, when I wrote about the Prue Breed issue above. For, my take on that, and on what is Get versus what is Get with Glass Walker education didn't include the violence angle in this matter.


                            • #15
                              heinrich I was meaning more in response to your reply to Lachdanan. If his mom was your sister, that would technically make the lad your nephew. And even though you might still have affection for him, you likely wouldn’t allow him to stay living among you and your people. Hence, why I can see him being sent off to live with his father among the Get.