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Kinfolk abilities: Uses and dice pools?

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  • Kinfolk abilities: Uses and dice pools?

    have wanted some help creating dice pools for kinfolk with buerucracy or Intuition for years.

    Heres a few ideas?

    Buerucracy: Getting a "Ghost Employee" on Pentexes payroll, to undermine them a bit.

    Intuition: Not even sure what to use it with...

    Herbalism: Best herbs to add to a hamburger helper or canned soup to freshen the taste a bit.

    delving into my own fetishes for a second, ways to preserve a birch rod, and slow its deterioation.

    Caring for an herbal garden.

    Vetinary Medicine: Spay or neuter a dog or cat.

    Tend a wolf that's been injured.
    Last edited by Prince of the Night; 04-25-2018, 05:49 PM.

  • #2
    Bureaucracy for Kin is hugely useful as a support ability. The majority of, "do human stuff on behalf of the Garou," falls under Bureaucracy. Setting up Garou friendly businesses to make money for the Tribes without alerting the authorities, 'finessing' the system to get IDs and paperwork that non-homids might struggle to get even if they had the skills for it, controlling local political entities like city councils and school boards and all that.

    Not a lot of rolling there mind you, but it's definitely stuff that's important.

    Intuition is basically parts of Awareness and Primal Urge, but less then either in combination. It's OK for general Kin, making it easier to interact with non-Homid Garou, and have some chances of not getting taken completely off-guard by supernatural stuff. It's much more useful for Numina user Kin since it's frequently used in them.

    Herbalism refers to traditional herbal medicine, such as being able to make first aid supplies from wild plants. If you let Kin use Rites, Herbalism + Spirit Awakening is pretty useful.


    • #3
      Hmnn just out of curiousity? Ideas how the roll would be to get a "Ghost Employee" on the books unnoticed?


      • #4
        Well, if you want Rover, your dog (substitute another ghost employee if you want a different ghost employee) on the payroll, you'd need to subvert the company's payroll system. In auditing in the U.S. according to GAAP and GAAS (Generally Accepted Accounting Practices and Generally Accepted Auditing Standards), we'd be looking at hours employees worked, whether the proper quarterly payroll tax returns were filed by an organization, the amount of payroll and the number of employees from a numbers perspective. We'd probably think about how payroll is prepared and see how that systems works in an audit. If it's a payroll prepared using the computer, we'd look at who is authorized to use the computer. We'd also look at safeguards in the computer program to prevent unauthorized access.

        If you require paychecks or stubs for direct deposit to be handed out to the employee or a designated signee, then you could see who shows up to pick up the paychecks. You'd also want to think about what is done with paychecks that aren't picked up.

        Putting a false employee on the payroll is a form of fraud. Fraud occurs because all three parts of the fraud triangle are active and management failed to prevent the fraud.

        From the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, a professional accounting organization for those who fight fraud, the fraud triangle is:

        Perceived financial need



        So, someone wants the financial benefits that perpetrating a fraud creates. If they benefit others from the fraud, they need to have a benefit as well. Opportunity means the anti-fraud systems in place at an organization can be circumvented by that person. Since it costs money to prevent fraud, no organization is going to catch every conceivable scheme. Rationalization is where someone believes that the moral 'thou shall not steal' is acceptable to break in that case. They convince themselves that 'it's not hurting anyone,' these are bad people like Pentex, or some other reason that makes them feel the act is worth committing.


        • #5
          Someone trying to do corporate sabotage is going to need a mix of Intelligence + Bureaucracy to cover the actually doing a lot of the work mentioned above. Though you'd also want a lot of Manipulation, and associated Abilities since there's a lot of person to person lying you need to do.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
            Someone trying to do corporate sabotage is going to need a mix of Intelligence + Bureaucracy to cover the actually doing a lot of the work mentioned above.
            This is why I prefer corporate sabotage with Intelligence+Demolition. Don't mess with the Ratkin!


            • #7
              ok, on a slightly fetishistic note? How well do you think Herbalism (Abiility or Numina) can preserve a birch Rod?

              On the Ghost employee thing think we should just go with Difficult 6 or 7 or base it on somones dice pool?
              Last edited by Prince of the Night; 04-26-2018, 06:59 PM.


              • #8
                I'd think that an opposed roll would be easy than assigning a difficulty in many circumstances where one is subverting weak internal controls and doesn't want to go through a full computer hacker vs. computer hacker checklist for modifiers.

                Mage 20 Book of Secrets has some material in chapter 2 on computer hacking--best bet is to get that Glasswalker a deal with the Virtual Adepts for a Trinary computer. . . Difficulty 6 or 7 seems to work for most commercial software hacking difficulties.


                • #9
                  and if your just a Kinfolk on the inside Trying to sabotage pentex From within?


                  • #10
                    If you're inside Pentex, the kinfolk can use more social hacking modes to subvert the bureaucracy. Two inherent limitations of internal controls are that management can override them and employees can conclude with each other or outsiders to override the systems. If the payroll clerk and someone in HR both decide to create phantom employees, then someone else would have to notice an employee who gets paid but is never at work.


                    • #11
                      oh another idea?

                      if your employeed by a local newspaper, or news studio, whatever?

                      what kind of roll to either squeelch a story, or ensure it happens?


                      • #12
                        That's more of an Influence thing. Probably be Manipulation + Media Influence, though I could see justification for using Charisma in place of Manipulation based on how you went about it.


                        • #13
                          do garou and kinfolk use influence background.?

                          oh just reread the Forgery rules on page 281 of the anniversary corebook. was wondering where the line between them and buerucracy is made or if they can make buerucracy easier.

                          if a kinfolk is trying to handle the legal side of an adoption and separating a cub from well meaning but misguided parents who think their child has a mental illness or is possesed by a demon or some such garbage, how would you handle that?

                          Both could come up whenever a metis or lupus wants a human identity.
                          Last edited by Prince of the Night; 05-09-2018, 10:21 PM.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                            if a kinfolk is trying to handle the legal side of an adoption and separating a cub from well meaning but misguided parents who think their child has a mental illness or is possesed by a demon or some such garbage, how would you handle that?
                            I would look up CPS and how fostering/adoption works. I am in America so I will assume that's the setting, since that is what I am more familiar with.
                            For a kid to be removed from a home the abuse has to be *very* well documented. It generally take a lot of bad stuff to remove a kid from their parents.

                            Exorcism rituals can be brutal, so if they are trying that on the kid that may be grounds for removal. On the other hand, you have also been asking about forgery. It is not impossible to remove the kid by falsifying evidence, but that is pretty dang risky. Parents that are not abusers and have their child taken by CPS (werewolf or not!) are going to be screaming at the top of their lungs and probably suing with the help of the ACLU to boot.


                            • #15
                              think forgery, or buerucracy is the roll of choice for lupus or metis wanting a human identity?

                              Think in the case of wanting kid's removed its best to just have them "Run away" and lead them on a merry little chase that results in nothing?