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Mutli-Generational Packs

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  • Mutli-Generational Packs

    This question popped up in my mind years ago when designing a sept, but would there be packs that have had such a broad or long term purpose that they might exist for generations, maybe even centuries or more? I've never seen examples of such. My impression from canon are packs seem more like friend-groups, bands, or a generation of siblings/cousins if you will. Sure, there's new people that join to make up loses, but if the pack doesn't get wiped out, it fades away after completing its purpose or the pack members age into sept positions or take up other goals. Still, there does seem to be a logic to long lived packs existing. I would think they would still be on the rare side.

    But thoughts?
    Last edited by Onkwe; 05-14-2018, 10:55 AM.

  • #2
    The Silver Pack is the only one I know of that has been in place for generations on generations, but I don't know if it gets pulled together when needed, or if they continually refresh their numbers as attrition takes its toll.

    "At the risk of sounding like a murder hobo"

    Attributed to Nyrufa.


    • #3
      There was an odd contradiction of Silver Packs being both (at least from what I remember). It takes a concolation moot to form one, which would probably require a crisis of some kind to do so. At the same time they say there can be only one per continent, which would imply that it is an ongoing institution. So IDK. Lol


      • #4
        I don't think multigenerational packs are common, but I've always assumed they exist. In my games, there are generally at least one NPC pack that is multigenerational. The important thing is whether the pack quest/purpose is one that is extremely long lasting, important, and interesting enough that new Garou keep wanting to join it while the current members welcome new members to carry on the tradition.

        So a pack quest that is too narrowly focused is likely to be accomplished during the time of its original members and won't be around for the next generation. Or if the purpose is too idiosyncratic or petty, it won't attract sufficient interest for new members to want to join. Or if the task is too hard or difficult that new members can't be recruited because they couldn't handle it and be killed off too quickly. It also needs to have enough of a strong reputation that young Garou want to carry on the name, rather than start their own pack with a similar quest and "do it right." It needs to hit a sweet spot of being interesting, prestigious, not too hard, and addresses an ongoing concern.

        I think many packs are conceived as associations of Garou of comparable rank, and as the Garou advance in rank, they advance in more or less the same time. That is certainly how PC packs operate. Multigenerational packs have to allow for pack members of vastly different ranks since the younger members will be of lower rank than the more experienced members. For the most part, that shouldn't pose much of a problem except for rare menaces that can only be handled by only the top ranking Garou. Most challenges can be ones where a younger Garou can do well enough under the guidance of an experienced pack.

        Multigenerational packs are probably institutions at the septs they serve, or serve a big need within a tribe, or for the Nation as a whole through Concolations. Some packs might be the default "leadership" pack of a caern where Garou who reach a certain age or renown is invited to join. At such septs, the young Garou might eagerly seek eventual "promotion" to those packs. Other packs might serve as a special need at larger septs and ensures continuity of purpose. These packs might have high turnover as Garou join and then leave the pack, acting as middle management as they get promoted to them and then leave for greater challenges. Such packs might act as permanent caern Guardians, watch over the kinfolk of the sept, or handle relations with humanity and protect the Veil. Some packs might serve as important elements within a tribe, and might be the leadership of entire camps. I could see a pack of roving Shadow Lords in the Judges of Doom camp for example, carrying out "justice" whose decisions are accepted with few reservations because the pack is old, prestigious and deemed as legitimate because the pack totem has been overseeing this for centuries. Likewise, there might be very high level packs "authorized" by a multi-tribal concolation that continues to fulfill an important purpose on behalf of the Nation. It might be to monitor certain places in the umbra, serve as a library or research center into certain Wyrm minions, act as Veil repairers for major incidents since they have the resources to do so, or be responsible serving as an ongoing embassy/diplomats to the Nation so they can organize future concolations or mediate inter-tribal disputes before they get out of hand.

        I think packs are much like businesses in the days before corporations. Some family businesses last for generations. Others get taken over by new management, but their identity remains the same for centuries. But most turn over quickly, or die with their original owners.
        Last edited by Black Fox; 05-28-2018, 04:39 PM.


        • #5
          Yeah multigenerational packs were something I wished got covered way back when I first got on in Revised. The big thing to consider in addressing this is how pack totems work. By the rule I believe, at least back in Revised, was that totem points left with the packmate. So when packmates die you either what support the totem with the remaining members buying dots in totem? I really like the idea though that Pack Totems can graduate after their pack Retires, read dies, essentially getting a promotion through their totem experience in their umbrood. It feels they didn't do this in the setting because PCs are thought normally to be in a new pack with new 1st rankers. But that feels kind of too convenient for most of the worlds septs, which are in dire straits. But it fits nicely for a pack to be like a local family thing. Like if you have children breed true eventually they would replace you in the pack. But more needs to be explained and addressed for this, like why it isn't more popular.

          It is a time for great deeds!


          • #6
            I imagine the reason cubs (new PCs) don't join multigenerational packs is that those established packs don't want brand new Garou who barely know what they are doing. It's the same reason newly minted lawyers and MBAs aren't hired to be one of the chief officers of a corporation. They have an extended apprenticeship path to gain the necessary experience before they can move into senior management. Also, cubs likely expect that if they join an established pack, that they may not get the same opportunities for renown that they will have by starting new packs. A member of a pack of cliaths will not be at a disadvantage to the other members of the pack in terms of opportunities during pack quests. And because all cliaths are hungry for renown, that pack will be more likely to go out and do things, as opposed to packs of older members who have already earned renown and rank, and now may have settled down so individuals can work on one established renown path to get what they need for Athro and Elder.

            I expect multigenerational packs don't recruit from cliaths, but would from fostern and younger adren.


            • #7
              I think generational packs may recruit a cliath if they need number's...

              as many packs were generational back in the day.