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"Machine Messiah" Paradise.

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  • "Machine Messiah" Paradise.

    one totem I remember very fondly from 3rd edition is "Machine Messiah"

    What do you think the world he promises would look like?

    Paradise?

    Hell?

    or What?

    A bastion of life and sanity, in the midst of the Wyrms corruption.



  • #2
    He offers neither wyld nor wyrm, nor perhaps not even weaver.. and definately not Gaia... he offers the realm of brass and Shadow.

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    • #3
      you think hes auto (whatever) from exalted?


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      • #4
        If Machine Messiah is (or is connected to) Autochtonia, that could mean it's already fallen to the Wyrm as of current WoD-Events happening. Autochtonia is home to the Autopolitan faction of Thread Null and before it was the Horizon Construct of the Iteration-X.
        Of course, in Werewolf it could still be a rather untouched Weaver-Manifestation (there's evidence to Autochtonia being the growing physical manifestation of "The Machine", one of Weavers Incarnas growing to the power of a Celestine). So the Machine Messiah, in this case, would be an Incarna of Autochtonia and this would mean the process of The Machine becoming Celestine would be at least near complete.

        What world could such a spirit promise?
        Either, if corrupted, a hell of machines and re-iteration. A world in which there is no empathy, no sense in any action rather than striving for a kind of perfection that ultimately ends in self destruction. Or, if still intact, a world immune to the influences of Wyrm AND Wyld. A constant existence without pain. No emotions, whether positive or negative. The ultimative status quo.

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        • #5
          Some Glasswalkers Worship him and Try to bring him about as a physical reality.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
            you think hes auto (whatever) from exalted?

            I think there's a strong implication the Machine Messiah is the Computer from IX which.. is Autochthon from Exalted(Or one of his sub gods)

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            • #7
              Ok, I found it in Book of the City. The way Machine Messiah is described there implies it's still true to the Weaver (at that point). So it's vision would rather be a perfect, controlled world. Probably one, where AI is regulating every aspect of society. It depends on how much Weaver despises biological life but that, in my eyes, would be a more Wyrm influenced Weaver.

              Machine Messiah could very well be an aspect of Autochtonia which is slowly fusing with the Computer at that point, even though the Exalted version is not canon in WoD.
              In the light of Thread Null Autochtonia get's heavily corrupted and this could change the focus of the Machine Messiah as well. Or, it could do it's own thing, release itself from Autochtonia and stay true to the way of Weaver.
              Especially in the light of "crossover" cosmology (including the Computer and Threat Null in a Werewolf game) there are tons of implications that could be very interesting but also very complex and hard to follow. This seems like a hypothetical discussion though, so I hope it's fine.

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              • #8
                hmmmn think Machine Messiah as a bastion of Sanity, in a world dominated by the Wyrm, would be cool?

                As opposed to ruling whole planet with all kneeling in awe and gratitude to their Savior.
                Last edited by Prince of the Night; 07-10-2018, 10:26 AM.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheVarulfen View Post
                  Ok, .. Probably one, where AI is regulating every aspect of society. It depends on how much Weaver despises biological life but that, in my eyes, would be a more Wyrm influenced Weaver...
                  I've never gotten the impression the weaver despised biological life, is that stated somewhere?

                  I always thought the weaver viewed biology the way it views most things, perfectly functional machines that are hopelessly damaged/degraded by wyrm and wyld influence(something it wishes to correct). I imagine the weaver would manifest more in the drive to decode and manipulate the genetic algorythm until everyone is biologically "perfect"(read The Same), rather than any kind of robot apocalypse(corrupted machines defying their intended function to destroy their creators rings very Wyrmy)

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                  • #10
                    I don't believe that the Weaver would despise biological life, either. It is however my impression that most spirits and servants of the Machine Incarna are... well, machines of some kind. That's to say Pattern Spiders, Geomites and such, who are clearly non-biological. This is the side of the Weaver that's also heavily corrupted, if you see Autochtonia as a kind of manifestation of the Machine and it is the strongest aspect of them (the Patriarchy may or may not be very corrupted as well and still powerful, while I haven't seen many suggestions of the Science Incarna itself is corrupted, however it is not as powerful as it was).

                    I think, a robot hell would be the consequence of a Wyrm-tainted Machine Incarna, as it would try to perfect life in such a way. The corrupted Patriarchy Incarna's vision might best be described as the Transhumanity-faction of Thread Null. Not despising biological life but rather embracing it and making everyone equal (ironically this would mean the end of patriarchy - but that's the Wyrms way, isn't it?).

                    Anyways, these are just my thoughts. Much of this is not written in the books (at least by word), but rather what I read between the lines. Since we're talking about a world the Machine Messiah could promise/try to create, I believe robot hell would be rather appropriate. All this only on the assumption that Weaver itself could be corrupted by the Wyrm. Then again, it may be broken enough by itself to maybe think this way.

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                    • #11
                      or it might be an aspect of the weaver more friendly to gaia? since its a glasswalker totem?


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheVarulfen View Post
                        I don't believe that the Weaver would despise biological life, either. It is however my impression that most spirits and servants of the Machine Incarna are... well, machines of some kind. That's to say Pattern Spiders, Geomites and such, who are clearly non-biological. This is the side of the Weaver that's also heavily corrupted, if you see Autochtonia as a kind of manifestation of the Machine and it is the strongest aspect of them (the Patriarchy may or may not be very corrupted as well and still powerful, while I haven't seen many suggestions of the Science Incarna itself is corrupted, however it is not as powerful as it was).

                        I think, a robot hell would be the consequence of a Wyrm-tainted Machine Incarna, as it would try to perfect life in such a way. The corrupted Patriarchy Incarna's vision might best be described as the Transhumanity-faction of Thread Null. Not despising biological life but rather embracing it and making everyone equal (ironically this would mean the end of patriarchy - but that's the Wyrms way, isn't it?).

                        Anyways, these are just my thoughts. Much of this is not written in the books (at least by word), but rather what I read between the lines. Since we're talking about a world the Machine Messiah could promise/try to create, I believe robot hell would be rather appropriate. All this only on the assumption that Weaver itself could be corrupted by the Wyrm. Then again, it may be broken enough by itself to maybe think this way.
                        I think the ever increasing power and prevelence of the machine incarna is more do to the fact it's kind of a "Weaver Only" form of "Life" the likes of which have never been seen before. Also looking at the greater scale, machines are kind of a symbolic short-hand for science and order in general. They are created specifically with one or a small group of set tasks they can't deviate from(in the case of automotons) or are given one or a small group of goals they optomize to the limit of their capability(in the case of AI). They are in a way a perfect reflection of the weaver in the physical world.

                        Though while the weaver has decorated everything it can find in the present(machines) it's favorite pet(humanity) gave it, machines are far from finished evolving as well. Living cells for instance are the only viable form of nano-bot in the real world as far as micro-processing limitations have shown, and they Can be programmed to create complex structures from organic materials(the strongest and most versatile resources known to man) and can be safely programmed to produce useful chemicals on mind bogolling production scales(example: programming bacteria to produce medicines like incilin). Post CRISPR/CAS-9 research may see more use of Life-Like machines that will in turn reflect in more organic weaver-spirits(granted, a lot of the more "optimized" and "organic" tech prototypes look like stuff straight out of an H.P. Lovecraft novel, just look at the magnetic coils in Germany's prototype fusion reactor. the thing looks like semi-organic alien technology/art)

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