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  • Shapeshifting Gifts

    Hello all, I was wondering if the Metis Gift ''Form Mastery'' aids the use of other shapeshifting gifts, like Homid ''Body Shift'', Metis "Protean Form'' and Ragabash ''Thousand Forms''.
    Thank you in advance.

  • #2
    Nay, the System clearly refers to certain pages.


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    • #3
      Probably as examples, not absolute canons, probably.

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      • #4
        The way I read it ''Form Mastery'' definitely aids the use of:

        ''Body Shift'' since it calls for a shapeshifting roll and ''Form Mastery'' specifically reduces the difficulty of all shapeshifting rolls.
        "Protean Form'' since that Gift is a permanent effect and doesn't negate other benefits to shapeshifting.

        By the same token, I wouldn't allow it to work with ''Thousand Forms'' since that doesn't call for a shapeshifting roll. Rather, it calls for a Intelligence + Animal Ken roll.

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        • #5
          I was too fast to come to a judgement.

          The Form Mastery should decrease difficulties with Protean Form. Both Gifts' System refers to the same page.

          But I wouldn't decrease the difficulty of Body Shift, it's an additional ability, not the modification of the "shapeshifting (see p. 285)"or "partial transformations (see p. 286)".


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
            But I wouldn't decrease the difficulty of Body Shift, it's an additional ability, not the modification of the "shapeshifting (see p. 285)"or "partial transformations (see p. 286)".
            I think its a matter of semantics. The reason I would allow it is that Body Shift calls for a shapeshifting roll. It is the same roll as changing to another form even if the change you are making is completely different. In the end I can see your point and think it is a judgement call for each table.

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            • #7
              This is one of those grey areas where ambiguity of what 'shape shifting' really is. I am inclined to agree with Lachdanan because shape shifting rolls require primal urge which shows that the shapeshifter is trying to do something innate to their nature. So to that effect, Body shift definitely should be allowed.

              Thousand Form is using Animal Ken though, this shows to me that they are using a bond between them and other species to guide their change. This is clearly outside of the the normal shape shift the Garou are used to doing. With that said though, Protean Form clearly allows the Garou to extend his partial shifts outside of his normal forms and I would allow Form Mastery to effect this as it is just extending what is already possible to the Garou.

              I feel like the user would need to have Form Mastery and Protean Form for Form Mastery to influence Thousand Form. I know that Garou don't normally have prerequisites for gift interactions but Protean Form gives the Garou the knowledge they need to understand shifting outside of the norm, and if they already have Form Mastery then is makes sense, to me at least, that they could apply that combined knowledge to Thousand Forms (and other shape sifting gifts like this).

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              • #8
                Wondered a bit, how would say a silver fang or shadow lord homid or lupus who decides to learn a bonegnawer or metis gift be seen?

                A Shadowlord Judge of doom, might find many bone gnawer survival tricks VERY handy.

                many subterfuge oriented garou might find Protean form or rathead worthwhile.


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                • #9
                  It highly depends on the ST, inmy games its extremely rare.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThomasM View Post
                    ...calls for a shapeshifting roll.
                    Nay, it calls for a Stamina+Primal Urge roll, which you use, also, for Shapeshifting, but not exclusively reserved for it.


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