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Quick Question About Malfeas

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  • Quick Question About Malfeas

    I read on TVtropes Malfeas is a kind of Hell,a punishing plane, And that anyone who consumes anything wyrm tainted,like a burger made from one Pentex subsidiaries is going there to be punished for eternity? is that really it? is there any way to escape this faith?

  • #2
    Escaping Malfeas can make for an awesome storyline, as can recovering someone lost to Malfeas. Not everyone ends up there but everyone who becomes too wyrm tainted or formori certainly has their spirit end up there as can some really unlucky types.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Moirdryd View Post
      Escaping Malfeas can make for an awesome storyline, as can recovering someone lost to Malfeas. Not everyone ends up there but everyone who becomes too wyrm tainted or formori certainly has their spirit end up there as can some really unlucky types.
      Oh understood.

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      • #4
        In any case, I don't really remember anything about eternal punishment (in the afterlife I guess) in WtA. Sure, animal spirits are according to the Core rules spirits of dead animals, which I find silly and not in tune with the way spirits are described. There is Erebus, where living beings are tortured until they die or are cleansed.

        If there is any page reference to Malfeas being akin to hell for actual dead people, I'd like to read it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by heinrich View Post
          In any case, I don't really remember anything about eternal punishment (in the afterlife I guess) in WtA. Sure, animal spirits are according to the Core rules spirits of dead animals, which I find silly and not in tune with the way spirits are described. There is Erebus, where living beings are tortured until they die or are cleansed.

          If there is any page reference to Malfeas being akin to hell for actual dead people, I'd like to read it.
          While it may not be a hellish afterlife per se, if a mortal is taken and trapped in Malfeas (as BotW20th seems to indicate), they could disconnect and become spirits themselves. If that occurs, the unfortunate's pain may be prolonged indefinitely.
          Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 08-20-2018, 06:22 PM.

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          • #6
            In my head canon, I consider Malfeas to be the Garou (Middle Umbra) equivalent of Hell/Tartarus - the underworld place that is a prison for evil (Fallen Angels or Titans). Things that are exceedingly dangerous to the continued survival of the biosphere (Gaia) get thrown there. (Of course, like all such prisons, it is possible for creatures there to temporarily escape (or be summoned!) to bedevil the Realm).

            So it's entirely possible for servants of the Wyrm to go to Malfeas, but most likely if they're evil humans, they are most likely to just vanish into Oblivion when they die, or be turned into spectres. There would need to be some kind of serious magic that allowed them to end up in Malfeas instead (but for creatures half flesh and half spirit like the Changing Breeds, Malfeas might indeed be their Hell prison). But I'd never have someone be condemned to go to Malfeas because they ate some tainted burger, or picked up Wyrm taint elsewhere. I wouldn't even do that for most Fomori.

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            • #7
              Was a concentration camp hell for the victims of the Third Reich? In a way, yes.

              But Malfeas isn't a place of punishment, its the bastion of corruption. Yeh, if a Garou got stucked there, it will be a hell of a day, but where they are tormented and cleansed is Erebus.

              If someone is punished there, it's the Wyrm, thrashing in the Weawer's threads. And by cannon it isn't evil, or at least, it wasn't.

              By the way, the Garou cosmology doesn't realy care for the dead spirit of humans. Some coma back as Ancestors, some become wraits, but we donno about the others.


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              • #8
                Well, my point being, that from the top of my head, Malfeas is bad for most people who are there, regardless if they traveled there on purpose, by accident or if they got kidnapped. And sure, if humans disconnect like garou do, then they might just become spirits who are tortured in the most corrupted ways there. But they still would need to get there, by 'Parting the Velvet curtain' or the 'Spirited away' Charn or means like that. Their spirits/souls wouldn't go there after death. Spectre or Oblivion would be where souls are headed, that were corrupted.
                Unless Infernalism played a role, then some hell-ish like Umbra realm is their destination, but that is not the usual way for the wyrm.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
                  But Malfeas isn't a place of punishment, its the bastion of corruption.
                  I am not saying Malfeas exists as punishment, like it is guarded and policed by Gaian forces. It is a prison, or if you prefer, a place of exile.

                  To understand what I am talking about, consider the role of Hell in regards to the Devil and demons. It is clearly the place where they were cast down (and can be seen as a punishment of sorts), but people tend to regard it as a bastion of evil. And the Devil and his minions can inflict great harm on the world (at least until the End Times when God will finally destroy evil) albeit with various restrictions imposed on him.

                  R'Lyeh can also be seen as a prison for Cthulhu while the stars are not right, even though it is also his home. Nevertheless, Cthulhu's dreams still reach out to the minds of psychic sensitives and as a result created cults around the world, and the lesser members of his race can sometimes go about the world.

                  Tartarus can be seen as a place of punishment, but it also acts as simple prison for the Titans. Yet in some myths, Typhon spawned from there. And even though now imprisoned there, Typhon stirs within his prison so that the earth shakes and volcanic destruction is the result.

                  Likewise in the game there are concepts like Bane Tenders. The aforementioned Banes are certainly imprisoned, but I don't think you can say the Banes are being punished. It's more like someone putting up a dam or dyke to keep out water from flooding the area.

                  So there does not need to be a contradiction between the idea of a place being a prison, but also being a bastion of power for those imprisoned in it.

                  And Malfeas is certainly not meant to be a prison or punishment for Garou. Its for things inherently un-Gaian to keep them out of this world.

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                  • #10
                    But "to keep them out of this world" implies a reason for it's existence by a supposedly third party. I see Malfeas as kind of the hen/egg-problem. It exists because the evil needed a source or home and it is shaped by this evil to be evil in return, making its inhabitants corrupted and so on.

                    There are other evil places among the realms of the near umbra, and certainly beyond (within MtA), and they all represent some fundamental aspect of the world, that being their reason for existence.

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