Tribes Books: 1st vs Revised

[geeklord1]

So just wondering which edition tribe books do you guys recommend? Overall and tribe by tribe?

[marin]

Pretty much hands down the Revised tribebooks over first edition in almost all cases, except for the Children of Gaia, who're in the unfortunate position of having both tribebooks not be good.

[Undead rabbit]

I'd say this is true for every game-line.
1 and 2nd ed Clan/tribe/traditions book were...at best not really good...at worst...offensive I'd say.

[Rock113]

The deepest impression I have left is The Book of Wyrm... (Can this be included in Tribes?) 1st has a very terrible guy called The-First-Ronin("Ronin" may have mistake, I forget) , his Stats is ... OMG, I don't know Why when argues The most powerful werewolf, he is not discussed . In Revised this guy doesn't have Stats, just Backgrounds, but in ToJ he is mentioned. In W20's TBoW ,this guy seems to be removed? ... This book is my friend's best love...

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Pretty much hands down the Revised tribebooks over first edition in almost all cases, except for the Children of Gaia, who're in the unfortunate position of having both tribebooks not be good.

I liked the first CoG book, but that's just me. For the others, I suggest reading through the first edition and then view the 2nd ed as an upgrade/add-on. The original books go further into the relations a tribe will have with outsiders (like the Black Furies close ties to the Verbena and their hatred of the Euthanos which are both understandable) and you get the comics.

[heinrich]

I also like the first edition TB (for Children of Gaia). I dislike the revised TB for the most part. It has some nice ideas but execution was bad.

[Su-tehp]

The deepest impression I have left is The Book of Wyrm... (Can this be included in Tribes?) 1st has a very terrible guy called The-First-Ronin("Ronin" may have mistake, I forget) , his Stats is ... OMG, I don't know Why when argues The most powerful werewolf, he is not discussed . In Revised this guy doesn't have Stats, just Backgrounds, but in ToJ he is mentioned. In W20's TBoW ,this guy seems to be removed? ... This book is my friend's best love...

Yeah, I can't see playing a Black Spiral Dancer as anything that would be worth a gaming group's time, not even as a Black Dog supplement, so including Book of the Wyrm and/or the BSDs tribal write-up in there as a pseudo-Tribebook is probably a bridge too far. OTOH, we DO have a fomori book from Black Dog, so your mileage may vary... But on the other OTHER hand, stuff like Sabbat in Montreal by Night (another Black Dog book) and fomori have at least a hint of tragedy about them so playing them might be worthwhile for experienced gamers. BSDs are COMPLETELY irredeemable so playing them would be a worthless exercise that few, if any, people would think was fun.

As for the First Ronin, he/it is meant to be a sort of bogeyman for the Garou. The First Ronin, according to legend, is also the first metis and pledged himself to the Wyrm when he was cast out by the Garou for his parents' sins. Since the Wyrm made him immortal, he's meant to be more of a force of (Wyrmish) nature that stalks lone Garou, rather than a representative of any tribe. Hell, he's not anywhere near typical for even a BSD. And I think it's still an open question of what the First Ronin even thinks of the BSDs, whether he regards them as allies, as enemies no different from Gaian Garou, or even if he thinks about them at all.

As for the Tribebooks, what Yaoi and heinrich said. The Revised CoG Tribebook is terribad for many reasons, but the 1st ed CoG book is salvagable. The CoG books aside, the Revised Tribebooks generally seem to be "better" than the 1st Ed books (or at least seem to me to be easier reads), but both versions have some good ideas in them.

[Rock113]

Yeah, I can't see playing a Black Spiral Dancer as anything that would be worth a gaming group's time, not even as a Black Dog supplement, so including Book of the Wyrm and/or the BSDs tribal write-up in there as a pseudo-Tribebook is probably a bridge too far. OTOH, we DO have a fomori book from Black Dog, so your mileage may vary... But on the other OTHER hand, stuff like Sabbat in Montreal by Night (another Black Dog book) and fomori have at least a hint of tragedy about them so playing them might be worthwhile for experienced gamers. BSDs are COMPLETELY irredeemable so playing them would be a worthless exercise that few, if any, people would think was fun.

As for the First Ronin, he/it is meant to be a sort of bogeyman for the Garou. The First Ronin, according to legend, is also the first metis and pledged himself to the Wyrm when he was cast out by the Garou for his parents' sins. Since the Wyrm made him immortal, he's meant to be more of a force of (Wyrmish) nature that stalks lone Garou, rather than a representative of any tribe. Hell, he's not anywhere near typical for even a BSD. And I think it's still an open question of what the First Ronin even thinks of the BSDs, whether he regards them as allies, as enemies no different from Gaian Garou, or even if he thinks about them at all.

As for the Tribebooks, what Yaoi and heinrich said. The Revised CoG Tribebook is terribad for many reasons, but the 1st ed CoG book is salvagable. The CoG books aside, the Revised Tribebooks generally seem to be "better" than the 1st Ed books (or at least seem to me to be easier reads), but both versions have some good ideas in them.

Thanks ! ! ! Uh , now I think Ronin is an avatar of Wyrm better than a single Garou .

[Lian]

Generally the Revised version of the book has all the advantages of hindsight looking at the first version of the book.. some how COG still happened though. On the other hand some of them also caused major metaplot shifts in the Tribe's structure(see Glasswalkers) where one might legitimately prefer one the older More Mafia focused Glasswalkers over their near obsolecence in Revised.

[Eldagusto]

I avoided the revised COG book but I never thought of using their older book as a jumping off point good idea! What is their history like in the old book?

In my setting the First Ronin acts as the Horsmen of War, and is an embodiment of Armageddon and looks like a demon even in homid Form.

[No One of Consequence]

All of the 1st edition ones are OK or at least not bad, though some have issues here and there (the Fianna book's fixation on the conflicts in Northern Ireland, for example). The original Silent Striders one is still my favorite of the group, not least of which because of the weird circumstances that surrounded it's writing.

[No One of Consequence]

I avoided the revised COG book but I never thought of using their older book as a jumping off point good idea! What is their history like in the old book?.

It's been about twenty years since I've read it, but I recall it had their cultural origins centered around ancient Mesopotamia, IIRC. A lot of the history focused more on more modern stuff from the past few centuries (the Abolitionist movement and the early Women's Suffrage movement that grew up beside it is the part that really sticks out in my memories). The various tribal camps were all decent and I still use most of them - or at least their core ideas - for the tribe's camps in my own games. It also had a couple of interesting totems, including an "American Trinity" thing of (IIRC) Eagle Dove and Turkey that were supposed to represent George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin, I think. It's not a great book, but it does have a decent amount of good material to build off of.

[Asmodai]

The original Silent Striders one is still my favorite of the group, not least of which because of the weird circumstances that surrounded it's writing.

I liked it, what was the story behind its writing?

[Story Letter]

I avoided the revised COG book but I never thought of using their older book as a jumping off point good idea! What is their history like in the old book?

In my setting the First Ronin acts as the Horsmen of War, and is an embodiment of Armageddon and looks like a demon even in homid Form.

What deformities, or other characteristics you use on First Metis ? Character stats are also appreciated.

[Eldagusto]

I envisioned him like the Beast From Angel. When the Apocalypse Nears he will arrive from the Umbra onto the Physical world appearing much like a flaming meteor. In his honor form he would have massive demonic Horns, and large Cloven Hooves, Goatlike square Pupils and a serpents tongue. He would be about the size of a Crinos while in Homid Form and his skin would appear like scales of Basalt.

The official write up is he has cursed rune tattoo glyphs that spell out personalized blasphemies to any who read them, I’ll keep that but change it to scarred engravings in his stone like flesh (think skin like the Thing from fantastic four but much darker).

He is essentially was a metis made into a nigh immortal Ferectoi ( Ferectoi are types of Fomori born as Fomori that are quite potent, but some are beings reborn Theough potent methods like feeding themselves to a Thunderwyrm).

Basically his physical stats are strength of 9 in Homid form (think like he has the Fomori power of Mega strength) stamina 8 but also 4 points of natural armor from his cursed stone flesh. And Dexterity of 4.

He would have some stats supernaturally high, but only a few like Brawl 7, which could be higher as he has been dormant for literal ages. Alertness/Awarness 6.

He has several Dark Gifts, and a few more Demonic Investments.

But his form changes are a bit more Exaggerated then simple form shifts of mortal Garou. His homid form is called the Herald form.

Like turning from Herald form to Jotun or Glabro he grows from 9 feet (plus more then 2 feet of horns) to over 12 feet with over 3 feet of Horn. Use the same form bonus but his weight goes from like 1000lb to nearly a ton, he grows obvious talons and fangs. This is his Jotun form he uses if he starts experiencing difficulty his bad form starts to have problems with. His feats of strength rolls are at a -1 difficulty and he appears as a giant with a supernaturally clear and booming base voice. This form is a herald form to declare to humanity his proclaimations before becoming a one Beast Apocalypse. His scales grow dark and appear veined with dull yellow. Armor grows to 5 dots instead of 4, intimidation is at minus two difficulty.

Then shifting into His Armeggedon form, his Crinos Form. He grows into a hunched Titan that can appear 15-20 feet with Horns the size of a man. His scales are Blackened and grooved with apparent bright magma like ichor which oozes and ignited the floor where it falls. His hooves crack and Tremor the earth. Where his shadow falls salt and ash cakes. All strength rolls period are at a minus two difficulty including damage rolls. Talons and Hooves are plus 3 damage, tusks like fangs are at plus 4 damage and horns are at plus 5. An Armeggedon Roar can be unleashed which shatters glass in a mile radius and cracks stone and shakes the Earth for 10 miles.


Hispo Form is the Beast form. It’s ten foot at the shoulder horned wolf with scaled flesh instead of Fur. Men and Ghosts can be swallowed by the distended jaws which ooze magma like Venom. Even stone and steel can be chomped and burned in his crucible gullet. His Howl of War attracts the attention of spirits within 50 mile, and ignites fires and wonkifies electronics within 15 miles. His hind legs are hooves.

The Lupus form is the Stalker Form. His speed is 4 times that of his Herald form. He can senses sports as easily as flesh. Anyone he has tasted can be supernaturally tracked at a minus 3 to track rather the minus 2 and it can resist supernatural stealth. This form can run upon water or up the side of buildings. It can only crawl at homid speeds upon the ceiling and only if shadowed. This forms scales are more sleek obsidian blending into shadows and eating sound, stealth is minus 2 difficulty. Sin can be smelled as easily as blood, and lies drum like heart beats.