Can Black Spiral Dancer Gifts be learned out of tribe?

[Prince of the Night]

thought it was worth asking

Can Black spiral dancer gifts be learned by gaian Garou, no idea how they'd go about it.


But some of their gifts might be worthwhile.

Patagia anyone?

[Lachdanan]

Yes, they could, but I don't think any good-minded Garou would do it. I assume they would taint the soul.

Banes are spirits, and could be ordered / forced to share their Gifts.

By the way the Patagia can be bought as a Shadow Lord (Children of Bat) Gift.

[Heavy Arms]

They can. But the cost is generally not worth it. None of their Gifts are really so good it's worth exposing yourself to that much Wyrm.

[Lian]

thought it was worth asking

Can Black spiral dancer gifts be learned by gaian Garou, no idea how they'd go about it.


But some of their gifts might be worthwhile.

Patagia anyone?

why would you want Patagia when spirit of the bird exists?

[Lachdanan]

They can. But the cost is generally not worth it. None of their Gifts are really so good it's worth exposing yourself to that much Wyrm.

I find this statement unture. BSD's have good and versatile, specialized Gifts.

[Prince of the Night]

why would you want Patagia when spirit of the bird exists?

It doesn't take a gnosis every scene?


Imagine if your facing off against a group of SAD and pop a dancer gift or two? Could lead them by the nose in wrong direction.

[Lian]

It doesn't take a gnosis every scene?


Imagine if your facing off against a group of SAD and pop a dancer gift or two? Could lead them by the nose in wrong direction.

SAD don't really have that sort of knowledge. I mean there are good BSD gifts but I don't feel like Patagia is one FOR Gaian Garou. There are so many ways to get those benefits without risk.

[Prince of the Night]

hmmmn what about Aura of Poison?


It would allow you to approach and menace SAD or DNA agents safely, without fearing being arrested or killed.

[Heavy Arms]

I find this statement unture. BSD's have good and versatile, specialized Gifts.

The BSD's have the flat out best Gift List in-Tribe, because they're designed as NPCs and their Gifts cover a lot of ground as the sole Wyrm Tribe instead of the 13 Gaian Tribe with their much less well rounded Gifts.

Once we're talking about getting things out of Tribe, that's not important. It's not that their are only bad Gifts there you wouldn't want over the closest Gaian ones, but that, baring maybe a tiny number of exceptions, the in-game cost of learning a Gift from a Bane/corrupted spirit/etc. and the potential backlash against you for doing so (like being killed by the other Garou) is going to outweigh getting something that's mildly better.

[Prince of the Night]

The BSD's have the flat out best Gift List in-Tribe, because they're designed as NPCs and their Gifts cover a lot of ground as the sole Wyrm Tribe instead of the 13 Gaian Tribe with their much less well rounded Gifts.

Once we're talking about getting things out of Tribe, that's not important. It's not that their are only bad Gifts there you wouldn't want over the closest Gaian ones, but that, baring maybe a tiny number of exceptions, the in-game cost of learning a Gift from a Bane/corrupted spirit/etc. and the potential backlash against you for doing so (like being killed by the other Garou) is going to outweigh getting something that's mildly better.

A better way then aura of poison to be able to approach and threaten a SAD or DNA Agent?

Mental speech may not be quuite as imposing?

[Ana Mizuki]

A better way then aura of poison to be able to approach and threaten a SAD or DNA Agent?

Mental speech may not be quuite as imposing?

If you need to resort to Wyrmy gifts to face SAD or DNA agents, you are doing it wrong. To resort to Wyrmy gifts, the situation would have to be dire enough that it doesn't -matter- that you corrupt your soul. Garou can outwit human agents without selling their souls.

[Heavy Arms]

Aura of Poison keeps things without Rage from attacking you without attacking first because you're scary. It doesn't actually help you approach or threaten anyone (they might just run from you since you're so scary).

Persuasion doesn't cost a Gnosis, gives you a -2 difficulty break on all your social rolls for the scene, and your social rolls have greater impact than normal. So it's a perfect Gift for approaching a SAD or DNA agent (you can social roll them into listening to you without attacking) and then threaten them (the -2 difficulty and above normal impact is extremely potent). And it works on things with Rage.

Brother's Scent is also a decent alternative.

[Uniform Two Six]

1. I fully agree with Lian: The SAD simply doesn't have that depth of knowledge about the Garou. When investigating something, the closest they're likely to come is "Yeah, I'd bet those claw marks could have come from a lycanthrope..."

2. It's also irrelevant since (in canon at least) SAD no longer exists.

[Lian]

Aura of Poison keeps things without Rage from attacking you without attacking first because you're scary. It doesn't actually help you approach or threaten anyone (they might just run from you since you're so scary).

Persuasion doesn't cost a Gnosis, gives you a -2 difficulty break on all your social rolls for the scene, and your social rolls have greater impact than normal. So it's a perfect Gift for approaching a SAD or DNA agent (you can social roll them into listening to you without attacking) and then threaten them (the -2 difficulty and above normal impact is extremely potent). And it works on things with Rage.

Brother's Scent is also a decent alternative.

Or really Blur of the milky eye, taking the Forgotten, Jam Tech...

[Prince of the Night]

1. I fully agree with Lian: The SAD simply doesn't have that depth of knowledge about the Garou. When investigating something, the closest they're likely to come is "Yeah, I'd bet those claw marks could have come from a lycanthrope..."

2. It's also irrelevant since (in canon at least) SAD no longer exists.

officialy, yes they were all but disbanded. But theirs still a number of agents who do unofficial SAD stuff.

Though I heard in V5 their involved in a "Second inquisition" I, personally, hate it as it steals my comic relief.


I like to laugh at the feds

And an idea on a better case to learn Wyrmish gifts?