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Can Black Spiral Dancer Gifts be learned out of tribe?

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  • Can Black Spiral Dancer Gifts be learned out of tribe?

    thought it was worth asking

    Can Black spiral dancer gifts be learned by gaian Garou, no idea how they'd go about it.


    But some of their gifts might be worthwhile.

    Patagia anyone?



  • #2
    Yes, they could, but I don't think any good-minded Garou would do it. I assume they would taint the soul.

    Banes are spirits, and could be ordered / forced to share their Gifts.

    By the way the Patagia can be bought as a Shadow Lord (Children of Bat) Gift.


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    • #3
      They can. But the cost is generally not worth it. None of their Gifts are really so good it's worth exposing yourself to that much Wyrm.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
        thought it was worth asking

        Can Black spiral dancer gifts be learned by gaian Garou, no idea how they'd go about it.


        But some of their gifts might be worthwhile.

        Patagia anyone?


        why would you want Patagia when spirit of the bird exists?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          They can. But the cost is generally not worth it. None of their Gifts are really so good it's worth exposing yourself to that much Wyrm.
          I find this statement unture. BSD's have good and versatile, specialized Gifts.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lian View Post



            why would you want Patagia when spirit of the bird exists?
            It doesn't take a gnosis every scene?


            Imagine if your facing off against a group of SAD and pop a dancer gift or two? Could lead them by the nose in wrong direction.
            Last edited by Prince of the Night; 09-13-2018, 10:37 AM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post

              It doesn't take a gnosis every scene?


              Imagine if your facing off against a group of SAD and pop a dancer gift or two? Could lead them by the nose in wrong direction.

              SAD don't really have that sort of knowledge. I mean there are good BSD gifts but I don't feel like Patagia is one FOR Gaian Garou. There are so many ways to get those benefits without risk.

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              • #8
                hmmmn what about Aura of Poison?


                It would allow you to approach and menace SAD or DNA agents safely, without fearing being arrested or killed.




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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post

                  I find this statement unture. BSD's have good and versatile, specialized Gifts.
                  The BSD's have the flat out best Gift List in-Tribe, because they're designed as NPCs and their Gifts cover a lot of ground as the sole Wyrm Tribe instead of the 13 Gaian Tribe with their much less well rounded Gifts.

                  Once we're talking about getting things out of Tribe, that's not important. It's not that their are only bad Gifts there you wouldn't want over the closest Gaian ones, but that, baring maybe a tiny number of exceptions, the in-game cost of learning a Gift from a Bane/corrupted spirit/etc. and the potential backlash against you for doing so (like being killed by the other Garou) is going to outweigh getting something that's mildly better.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                    The BSD's have the flat out best Gift List in-Tribe, because they're designed as NPCs and their Gifts cover a lot of ground as the sole Wyrm Tribe instead of the 13 Gaian Tribe with their much less well rounded Gifts.

                    Once we're talking about getting things out of Tribe, that's not important. It's not that their are only bad Gifts there you wouldn't want over the closest Gaian ones, but that, baring maybe a tiny number of exceptions, the in-game cost of learning a Gift from a Bane/corrupted spirit/etc. and the potential backlash against you for doing so (like being killed by the other Garou) is going to outweigh getting something that's mildly better.
                    A better way then aura of poison to be able to approach and threaten a SAD or DNA Agent?

                    Mental speech may not be quuite as imposing?


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post

                      A better way then aura of poison to be able to approach and threaten a SAD or DNA Agent?

                      Mental speech may not be quuite as imposing?
                      If you need to resort to Wyrmy gifts to face SAD or DNA agents, you are doing it wrong. To resort to Wyrmy gifts, the situation would have to be dire enough that it doesn't -matter- that you corrupt your soul. Garou can outwit human agents without selling their souls.


                      My gallery.

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                      • #12
                        Aura of Poison keeps things without Rage from attacking you without attacking first because you're scary. It doesn't actually help you approach or threaten anyone (they might just run from you since you're so scary).

                        Persuasion doesn't cost a Gnosis, gives you a -2 difficulty break on all your social rolls for the scene, and your social rolls have greater impact than normal. So it's a perfect Gift for approaching a SAD or DNA agent (you can social roll them into listening to you without attacking) and then threaten them (the -2 difficulty and above normal impact is extremely potent). And it works on things with Rage.

                        Brother's Scent is also a decent alternative.

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                        • #13
                          1. I fully agree with Lian: The SAD simply doesn't have that depth of knowledge about the Garou. When investigating something, the closest they're likely to come is "Yeah, I'd bet those claw marks could have come from a lycanthrope..."

                          2. It's also irrelevant since (in canon at least) SAD no longer exists.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                            Aura of Poison keeps things without Rage from attacking you without attacking first because you're scary. It doesn't actually help you approach or threaten anyone (they might just run from you since you're so scary).

                            Persuasion doesn't cost a Gnosis, gives you a -2 difficulty break on all your social rolls for the scene, and your social rolls have greater impact than normal. So it's a perfect Gift for approaching a SAD or DNA agent (you can social roll them into listening to you without attacking) and then threaten them (the -2 difficulty and above normal impact is extremely potent). And it works on things with Rage.

                            Brother's Scent is also a decent alternative.
                            Or really Blur of the milky eye, taking the Forgotten, Jam Tech...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Uniform Two Six View Post
                              1. I fully agree with Lian: The SAD simply doesn't have that depth of knowledge about the Garou. When investigating something, the closest they're likely to come is "Yeah, I'd bet those claw marks could have come from a lycanthrope..."

                              2. It's also irrelevant since (in canon at least) SAD no longer exists.
                              officialy, yes they were all but disbanded. But theirs still a number of agents who do unofficial SAD stuff.

                              Though I heard in V5 their involved in a "Second inquisition" I, personally, hate it as it steals my comic relief.


                              I like to laugh at the feds

                              And an idea on a better case to learn Wyrmish gifts?


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