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Can Black Spiral Dancer Gifts be learned out of tribe?

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  • #16
    If you want to laugh at the feds, be a Homid Glasswalker (esp. Ragabash, Philodox, or Galliard) and you'll have all the Gifts you need without having to worry about the complications of going Wyrmy.

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    • #17
      some gifts youd suggest for putting SAD or DNA in their place?


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      • #18
        Lian and I already gave examples.

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        • #19
          Werewolf hunters generally aren't scary for what they can do to werewolves, but rather what they can do to Cubs and Kin. the SAD agent is going to have to do serious work to hurt a starting Garou and it only gets worse from there... in a one on one encounter.

          The Danger of the SAD isn't that he's going to pull out the silver bullets. The danger is he's a federal agent. He can throw various powers of the Federal government at you and yours, and as a creature of rage who lives on the edge of society you don't want this. The Veil is important. The SAD is threat that could get your Caern on government lands sold to the highest bidder(Pentex obviously!) it can get your Kin arrested, hell even having an APB on you that you have to dodge and sneak around is an issue. This the problems the SAD brings and they aren't jokes.


          And if you're trying to incorporate the SI? Its even less of a joke because its the tool the Technocracy has decided to use to say "We're done with your bullshit" now that's crossover but the SI is pure crossover anyway.

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          • #20
            Hmmmn a better example of something to learn Dancer gifts over?

            in Shadows of War (If anyone heres played it) Talion does something similar.


            I'll leave it at that to avoid spoilers.


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            • #21
              Um... confused? What are you trying to say there? I mean, I haven't played Shadows of War (wasn't a big fans of Shadows of Mordor), so.. what are we talking about? And it's a game that's been out for a year in a very well known setting... I think we can risk a few spoilers (or at least but them in a spoiler box).

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              • #22
                Hmmmn fair enough

                In shadows of war the protagonist in order to save middle earth becomes a Nazgul

                He chooses to wear one of the 9 rings of power to men, after destroying one of the Nazgul

                it was the only way to remain alive for him

                He valiantly goes on for decades fighting against Sauron, as the ring corrupted his mind.

                But in the end, when the ring is finished he becomes a willing slave.

                Only freed by the rings destruction.

                does that sound like a valid Comparison to what it is for a gaian garou to learn a dancer gift?


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                • #23
                  That's... pretty hard to put in WtA's framework. The closest version of that would be something a long the lines of a Gaian werewolf needing to do [something] necessary for the good of the cause, but despised enough that they get ostracized as a Ronin and continue to try to fight the good fight even as a Ronin the eventually fall prey to bad stuff.

                  It's hard to imagine any Gift carrying that level of narrative weight though.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    That's... pretty hard to put in WtA's framework. The closest version of that would be something a long the lines of a Gaian werewolf needing to do [something] necessary for the good of the cause, but despised enough that they get ostracized as a Ronin and continue to try to fight the good fight even as a Ronin the eventually fall prey to bad stuff.

                    It's hard to imagine any Gift carrying that level of narrative weight though.

                    Closest I guess would be the way some Banetenders are seen....but yeah not really applicable and.....I can hear Tolkien doing about 800 rpm in his grave in regards to the video game.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Damian May View Post


                      Closest I guess would be the way some Banetenders are seen....but yeah not really applicable and.....I can hear Tolkien doing about 800 rpm in his grave in regards to the video game.
                      Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't 'tough it out' with all 9 rings XD

                      The thing about BSD gifts, is that not even BSDs rely solely on them. They got auspice gifts and breed gifts just as any garou. Sure, they have ones solely for them, but they still use mother's touch as much as any Gaian.


                      My gallery.

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                      • #26
                        sadly, The video game is more faithful to tolkeins works then The movies have been... not that that is much of an accomplishment.

                        Its possible for a dancer theurge to learn mothers touch but rare.

                        a better idea for a case for a garou to learn a dancer gift?

                        or is it best for 'Fringe camps' like "Sword of heimdall"

                        as opposed to a real reason?


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                          Its possible for a dancer theurge to learn mothers touch but rare.
                          Why? It's one of their starting Gift options, it's 3 XP to pick up (even if they're not PCs with XP, it indicates the level of effort involved). BSDs get hurt and need patching up to throw back into the fight just like any other Garou. Not having medics is a pretty stupid idea if you're in the middle of a war.

                          a better idea for a case for a garou to learn a dancer gift?
                          OK... why is this so important to have happen?

                          Maybe if you come at this another way, we might be able to be more helpful. That games isn't written with the idea of the BSD Tribal Gift list as something the Gaian wolves are going to care about. It's not there to tempt them with awesome Gifts to try to corrupt them to the Wyrm's cause through bribery. Basically, BSD Gifts aren't designed for Gaians to learn, not as a mechanical issue, but as a narrative one.

                          Garou get corrupted and fall to the Wyrm over more individualized methods that takes more work than waving cool powers in their face.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                            Why? It's one of their starting Gift options, it's 3 XP to pick up (even if they're not PCs with XP, it indicates the level of effort involved). BSDs get hurt and need patching up to throw back into the fight just like any other Garou. Not having medics is a pretty stupid idea if you're in the middle of a war.



                            OK... why is this so important to have happen?

                            Maybe if you come at this another way, we might be able to be more helpful. That games isn't written with the idea of the BSD Tribal Gift list as something the Gaian wolves are going to care about. It's not there to tempt them with awesome Gifts to try to corrupt them to the Wyrm's cause through bribery. Basically, BSD Gifts aren't designed for Gaians to learn, not as a mechanical issue, but as a narrative one.

                            Garou get corrupted and fall to the Wyrm over more individualized methods that takes more work than waving cool powers in their face.



                            I just thought it was an interesting question Patience of the wyrm still seems kind of cool if your a moderately vindictive sort, or want to do some sabotaging.

                            on page 120 Book of the wyrm 20 it says clearly that dancer theruges rarely learn mothers touch


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