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  • No Maned Wolf fera?

    Yep, that's the question: no Maned Wolf (Chrysocyon brachyurus) shapeshifter/fera?

    This is the species I'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maned_wolf

  • #2
    I treat them as Uktena kin and the dominant visual patterning of Uktena living in South America... I believe some book somewhere backs me up on that but I was doing that before I know about some obscure reference to them.

    But I prefer a more expansive view on "wolf" than a lot of people seem to default to (even as the books themselves take decent amounts of liberties with other canines besides Canis lupus).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      I treat them as Uktena kin and the dominant visual patterning of Uktena living in South America... I believe some book somewhere backs me up on that but I was doing that before I know about some obscure reference to them.
      Likewise. I have them as the result of an ancient exchange between the Uktena and Mokole, similar to what happened with the African Red Talons. (Caveat: My Pure Land Tribes have always had a much more Creationist take on their origins, dismissing the whole land bridge theory as some silly Euro-centrist superstition, and having understandings - not alliances; even agreements would be too strong of a word, really for creatures so territorial - with the various Fera that they claim would have been impossible had they all been involved with the first War of Rage.)


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #4
        I left an opening for a lost Garou tribe to be found in South America (Falklands specifically, iirc) within Shattered Dreams. I *think* I was thinking of this species at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_wolf but honestly can't be sure. Either way, it wasn't spelled out in detail so the opening is there for whatever purposes you want regardless.


        Open the gates of Hell: Random Demon Generator.

        Shapeshifting Historian
        Freelancer - Shattered Dreams, Dark Eras Companion - Forsaken by Rome

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        • #5
          There's a tribe made by brazilians fans: The Ni-GuarĂ¡.

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          • #6
            Garous can breed with every wolf and have any kind of mane. Unless Pure Breed is involved, in which case they'll show fur patterns typical for their tribe.
            South-American wolves are probably mothers and fathers of every kind of tribe there, both native to America and born from European invaders, so you don't really need to force a racial predominance on the Amazon basin. If you'd like to, thou, the only choices would be Uktena and Wendigo.

            You could also say that Maned Wolves were mainly Croatan kin and the banishing of Eater-of-Souls left the whole area devoid of Garous; if we add the fact that the Amazon and South America in general have a lot of Fera (Bastet and Mokole, and werewolves are not really welcome in their lands) it would justify quite nicely the lack of local Werewolf tribes, only leaving the septs who settled there later. I seem to recall that Shadow lords, Black Furies and Red Talons had a strong presence down there, but don't take my word for it.

            EDIT: after checking it out, it would actually seem that the Uktena were the first Garou to discover the natives in the Amazon forest, so it would probably make more sense to give the maned wolves a stronger tie with their tribe. They won't all be Uktena kin, obviously, but still.
            Last edited by Maris Streck; 10-05-2018, 01:06 PM.

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            • #7
              Despite the name "maned wolf" they're not wolves. They're not even a species that has been called a wolf for ages so there's some cultural symbolism there. The indigenous languages there tend to use words for "fox" because there are no other natural canids there other than foxes (even if a different clade of foxes than vuplines like the red fox).

              So the only reason to even think of them as wolves is because Europeans decided to call them that when seeing them for the first time over what the locals called them. Bush dogs are called dogs because Europeans called them dogs instead of foxes as well.

              So even ignoring that they're biologically as closely related (if not more) to Kistune and Nuwisha than Garou, there's no spiritual connection that makes them specifically "Garou-esque" to claim an in-universe spirit based acceptance.

              This is why I prefer a more expansive concept of what counts as "close enough to wolf to work." Sticking to just C. lupus makes the range of the Garou ridiculously small, and then you get into weird "pick and choose" on what's a "wolf" and what isn't. Or, something I find rather annoying the "Wizard/Mokole did it" explanation for things; it's one thing for that to explain the Bunyip where there's some obvious need for secret special magic to make that work somehow, but needing it for other canines or canids is just silly to me.

              This is a game/world where lynx are allowed to be Bastet despite being both more genetically close to house cats than lions, and not even being particularly large felids to clump in to what are mostly members of the Pantera lineage and a few other big cats (cougars and cheetahs specifically).

              If a lynx can be a Bastet, I say any sufficiently large canid should be viable Garou regardless of their common English name being wolf, dog, jackal, fox or whatever.

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              • #8
                Recently I wrote a "Rage across Brazil" based in "Rage across the Amazon". I introduced the idea that the Amazon Uktena of South America got mated with the maned wolf, creating a new tribe.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                  If a lynx can be a Bastet, I say any sufficiently large canid should be viable Garou regardless of their common English name being wolf, dog, jackal, fox or whatever.

                  Or Garou are jackasses. That is to say Lynx can be Bastet but Lynx can't be Khan. Garou Broke the Dog breed because.. they are jack asses.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Magus View Post
                    Recently I wrote a "Rage across Brazil" based in "Rage across the Amazon". I introduced the idea that the Amazon Uktena of South America got mated with the maned wolf, creating a new tribe.

                    Any plans to drop it onto the Storytellers Vault?

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                    • #11
                      My typical response to "can animal X be a shapechanger" is to ask is there indigenous folklore that establishes there are people who can secretly transform into it? If not, I walk by. Sometimes fantasy tropes that aren't supported by real folklore (I am looking at you Ratkin/wererats) are too attractive to pass up, but they are best used as something secret, rare, or unknown mystery if the world you are playing in is supposed to be like the real world.

                      That's my preference. But the actual game itself is all over the place. It says Tasmanian Wolves, which aren't even mammals but marsupials, are Garou (I guess someone really liked Howling 3). And in an attempt to expand the Red Talons, they've had them be dingoes (which aren't wolves) and African wild dogs (which are canines, but more genetically different from wolves than coyotes are). And it's always been confusing whether the Silent Striders are supposed to be wolves or a jackal. But the Nuwisha aren't Garou. So it's a just a hot mess. If you really want to make the maned wolf a Garou tribe, whether brand new or part of the Uktena, you'll hardly be less consistent.

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                      • #12
                        It's certainly a hot mess, esp. considering how Pure Breed manifests vs. what wolves/canines from those areas actually look like, though at least the thylacines and African wild dogs are supposed to have had some magical power (aka the Mokole) behind them being part of the Garou kin stock (as much as I dislike that approach). Dingos are descended from wolves as long feral dogs (though the idea of them being Red Talons is kind of ridiculous as feral enough to be 'wolves' again dogs are kinda obviously Gnawer territory). The confusion around the Striders can be chalked up a bit to the fact that modern science was a bit confused for a bit until there was a soild genetic study to figure things out.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                          It says Tasmanian Wolves, which aren't even mammals but marsupials, are Garou (I guess someone really liked Howling 3).
                          ....when were marsupials declared not mammals?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                            This is why I prefer a more expansive concept of what counts as "close enough to wolf to work." Sticking to just C. lupus makes the range of the Garou ridiculously small, and then you get into weird "pick and choose" on what's a "wolf" and what isn't. Or, something I find rather annoying the "Wizard/Mokole did it" explanation for things; it's one thing for that to explain the Bunyip where there's some obvious need for secret special magic to make that work somehow, but needing it for other canines or canids is just silly to me.

                            This is a game/world where lynx are allowed to be Bastet despite being both more genetically close to house cats than lions, and not even being particularly large felids to clump in to what are mostly members of the Pantera lineage and a few other big cats (cougars and cheetahs specifically).

                            If a lynx can be a Bastet, I say any sufficiently large canid should be viable Garou regardless of their common English name being wolf, dog, jackal, fox or whatever.
                            Aren't the Celican European wild cats? Even more housecat like and less lion...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CeltSPZ View Post
                              ....when were marsupials declared not mammals?
                              You're right. My mistake. I wanted to make the distinction between pouched mammals and placental mammals, and I botched the terms completely. Thanks for the correction.

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