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Gifts: Scent Vs Sight

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  • Gifts: Scent Vs Sight

    Hi guys, I believe there is a power trampling comparing two darkness countering Gifts, Scent of Sight a Rank 2 Lupus Gift and Eyes of the Cat a Rank3 Metis Gift.
    The rank 2 gift is way better than the rank 3 one, it technically does the same thing and does even more than that. Ok with Scent of Sight you can't read in absolute darkness .... seriously I am Lupus and I don't care and yes Eyes of the cat stacks with Eyes of the Eagle (Lupus) and Eyes of Falcon (Silver Fangs), but on its own is worse than Scent of Sight.

    What other properties can you give to Eyes of the Cat in order to make it a good rank 3 gift in comparison to a similar lower rank gift (aka cat eye properties)?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Interesting. There are some things to keep in mind for what is actually written.

    Eyes of Cat gives you full details of normal sight, that Scent of Sight does not grant (it does not allow for color or fine details). That is not a distinction useful in a combat situation, but would be in other scenarios.

    Scent of Sight says "substitutes her sense of smell for her sense of vision" which implies that while the Gift is active, the Garou does not smell - she only sees. Again, this may or may not matter in certain scenarios. Probably not for combat. But for any reconnaissance or spy mission, Eyes of Cat is clearly superior.

    Finally, Scent of Sight is affected by things that are able to supernaturally obscure their scent. It requires a roll. So a Gift like Scent of Running Water and other powers negate Scent of Sight, but would not Eyes of Cat.

    The only real advantage Sight of Scent has over Eyes of Cat is that allows you to see invisible creatures. But not all invisible creatures may be affected - a vampire using Obfuscate is not being hidden by missing with your senses, but your mind so you couldn't see her. But obviously many invisible (or at least hidden) creatures would be detected.

    Other things that MAY be a result of Eyes of Cat is whether the Garou needs to be able to normally see to use the Gift. What if the Garou is normally blind (either as a result of Metis deformity or battle scar). If Eyes of Cat works anyway, it gives the Garou sight whenever there is darkness.

    There is also the statement that the character suffers no penalties from darkness (which rules for blindness forbids certain actions, or increases difficulty). Of course Scent of Sight should do the same in most circumstances, but perhaps there are scenarios where it does not. However, at the moment I can't think of any,

    Another weakness of Scent of Sight is that a foe knowledgeable of Garou might be ready to neutralize their sense of smell. Powerful odors can overwhelm the nose just like sudden bright lights can temporarily blind people, or very loud noises prevent you from hearing things you otherwise would hear. So a stink bomb or equivalent would effectively blind the Scent of Sight where it would not impact Eyes of Cat.

    All of this is pretty much rules as written (although STs will interpret the ability of blind people to use Eyes of Cat differently) and makes Eyes of Cat more attractive. Of course, you may still feel it needs to be improved.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      Interesting. There are some things to keep in mind for what is actually written.

      Eyes of Cat gives you full details of normal sight, that Scent of Sight does not grant (it does not allow for color or fine details). That is not a distinction useful in a combat situation, but would be in other scenarios.
      Correct.

      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      Scent of Sight says "substitutes her sense of smell for her sense of vision" which implies that while the Gift is active, the Garou does not smell - she only sees. Again, this may or may not matter in certain scenarios. Probably not for combat. But for any reconnaissance or spy mission, Eyes of Cat is clearly superior.
      Not exactly, ''The werewolf can compensate for her vision completely by using her sense of smell.''
      Plus "substitutes her sense of smell for her sense of vision" is a bit debatable on how you translate it. The ''A Perception+ Primal-Urge roll may be required to detect things which actively obscure their scent'' obviously means that your vision is actually a smell and works as such.
      As said above, debatable.

      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      Finally, Scent of Sight is affected by things that are able to supernaturally obscure their scent. It requires a roll. So a Gift like Scent of Running Water and other powers negate Scent of Sight, but would not Eyes of Cat.
      This case is when you have to roll in order to pierce through such a power (including the obfuscate discipline), the gift does give you the power to break these effects, while Eyes of the Cat does not.

      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      The only real advantage Scent of Sight has over Eyes of Cat is that allows you to see invisible creatures. But not all invisible creatures may be affected - a vampire using Obfuscate is not being hidden by missing with your senses, but your mind so you couldn't see her. But obviously many invisible (or at least hidden) creatures would be detected.
      That's highly debatable, in werewolf things are way more generic, Eyes of the Cat and Scent of Sight are not Auspex. Scent of sight can break Obfuscate as can Ears of the Bat with a contested roll. Even sense wyrm can pass through obfuscate only that it can't pierce it. Not to mention that they can pierce through Obtenebration as well with no roll.

      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      Other things that MAY be a result of Eyes of Cat is whether the Garou needs to be able to normally see to use the Gift. What if the Garou is normally blind (either as a result of Metis deformity or battle scar). If Eyes of Cat works anyway, it gives the Garou sight whenever there is darkness.
      I pretend I didn't read that.

      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      Another weakness of Scent of Sight is that a foe knowledgeable of Garou might be ready to neutralize their sense of smell. Powerful odors can overwhelm the nose just like sudden bright lights can temporarily blind people, or very loud noises prevent you from hearing things you otherwise would hear. So a stink bomb or equivalent would effectively blind the Scent of Sight where it would not impact Eyes of Cat.
      Yup you can counter these gifts with smell/blind bombs and that makes them equally vulnerable, from the point that both gifts have at least one weakness. Of course the character can resist such effects with Stamina and ruin the ST's plans.

      Thanks for replying.
      Last edited by Story Letter; 10-13-2018, 06:45 PM.

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