Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dagger of retribution question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dagger of retribution question

    Dagger of Retribution
    Level Two, Gnosis 5
    This particular fetish, an ugly iron dagger, was devised
    as a means of tracking down stolen possessions and the
    thieves responsible. The werewolf concentrates on the lost
    item while holding the dagger; the weapon gently tugs
    in the direction of the item until the Garou reclaims it.
    If the fetish’s owner knows the face or name of the thief,
    he may use the dagger to locate the thief as well. The
    fetish is treated as a knife in combat (Strength damage,
    difficulty 4)
    ; the damage may be lethal or aggravated at
    the Garou’s discretion.
    To create a dagger of retribution, a werewolf must
    bind a vengeance-spirit into the dagger.


    Question: Is the power of the fetish just to find the item or ALSO to inflict lethal OR aggravated ?
    Because if it's not, it will be quiet good to spend rage and attack multiple times at difficult 4.


    -'' We are the unsullied.
    We are the inheritors.
    We are the Pure ''-

    I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

  • #2
    If you assume that klaives permanently do aggr damage without the need of activation, the knife has the same kind of wording so you don't need an activation roll to use it.
    Still, remember that your battle forms usually do Str+2 aggr damage so it's not like you're going to use a knife that much for combat. The dagger has indeed a lower to hit difficulty but unless your total attack dice pool is over 10 the effect is that you'll be hitting a bit more often for a bit less damage.

    So, combat-wise is not useless but still not a conspicuous advantage over regular claw fighting. It's also going to be quite useless for Arhouns or any Garou using damage-enhancing gifts since they almost universally raise either claw or bite damage (with the exception of a single gift from the Silver Fangs list, iirc).

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Maris Streck View Post
      If you assume that klaives permanently do aggr damage without the need of activation, the knife has the same kind of wording so you don't need an activation roll to use it.
      Still, remember that your battle forms usually do Str+2 aggr damage so it's not like you're going to use a knife that much for combat. The dagger has indeed a lower to hit difficulty but unless your total attack dice pool is over 10 the effect is that you'll be hitting a bit more often for a bit less damage.

      So, combat-wise is not useless but still not a conspicuous advantage over regular claw fighting. It's also going to be quite useless for Arhouns or any Garou using damage-enhancing gifts since they almost universally raise either claw or bite damage (with the exception of a single gift from the Silver Fangs list, iirc).

      Yea but it can be quite good for a Get - philodox. I'm trying to build a rank 4 Philodox for a one-shot chronicle, and my character's profile will be something like ''judge and jury'' or ''reckless punisher'' , he will be a physical (but wise) character with high leadership and intimidation and of course, as a fenris, dots in brawl and melee.
      I'm not a fan of taking gifts out of auspice or tribe but I think I'm gonna take only Spirit of the fray ( are there werewolves without it?) for obvious reasons and this fetish. Philodox has a lot of combat-like gifts, and this fetish looks like a pretty decent idea not only for combat but also because of his profile.
      I love physical oriented philodox. Gives a wide range of options, both for skills and character ideas.
      Last edited by Helur; 12-15-2018, 11:07 AM.


      -'' We are the unsullied.
      We are the inheritors.
      We are the Pure ''-

      I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hm, I would only allow the tracking and the damage to work against the targets of your Retribution. Seems like an item you build when you want to go on a roaring rampage of revenge and then proceed to release the spirit upon the ending of your quest.


        What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hm, I would only allow the tracking and the damage to work against the targets of your Retribution. Seems like an item you build when you want to go on a roaring rampage of revenge and then proceed to release the spirit upon the ending of your quest
          This is in the common fetish list for W20 though. Aren't one-time uses more Talen-like? This kind of weapon is supposed to serve the philodox for a while.

          Originally posted by Helur View Post
          I'm not a fan of taking gifts out of auspice or tribe but I think I'm gonna take only Spirit of the fray ( are there werewolves without it?) for obvious reasons.
          It mostly depends on the ST. I usually ask for heavy chiminage, good reputation with the spirit family and long quests when players try to learn gifts outside their lists; when learning a level 2 gift is as annoying as a level 4 you're not that eager to take it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Maris Streck View Post




            It mostly depends on the ST. I usually ask for heavy chiminage, good reputation with the spirit family and long quests when players try to learn gifts outside their lists; when learning a level 2 gift is as annoying as a level 4 you're not that eager to take it.
            We totally allow to buy rank one and rank two gifts from other auspice/tribe/breed as the book totally allow it, and if there are garou that can teach you the gift you want.
            We ask for heavy chiminage only for rank 3 or 4 gifts from other lists, but we do not allow to buy out of-breed/tribe/auspice most of rank 4 gifts and all rank 5.
            I think it's not realistic to find rank 2+ without spirit of the fray, even the most anti-physical,low rage-theurge would find it really useful. Also, a pack without a theurge, therefore without Healing power, will be totally fucked.


            -'' We are the unsullied.
            We are the inheritors.
            We are the Pure ''-

            I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

            Comment


            • #7
              Every gaming group will have different ideas on what is appropriate for learning out of breed/auspice.tribe Gifts. In the chronicles I ST, I generally limit them to what Gifts would be appropriate for the pack totem to assist them with in their pack quest. If Unicorn or Bear is their pack totem, they'll find it easier to learn healing gifts. With Stag, some of the Fianna tribal gifts may be available. If it is a war totem, then Ahroun gifts are in play. They'll be a bit more chiminage involved, but not too badly.

              If PCs try to learn gifts outside of that arrangement which don't make sense given their pack totem and quest, then they'll need to find spirits totally unrelated to them, and their chiminage price will be steep even assuming they're willing to teach.

              If you are saying that Spirit of the Fray and Healing gifts are absolutely essential, and packs without them are essentially crippled, then you must be running an extremely combat heavy chronicle. Nothing wrong with that if that is the expectation of your gaming group, but that is not universal. Having those gifts out of auspice is certainly not normal in any of the games I've played.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                Every gaming group will have different ideas on what is appropriate for learning out of breed/auspice.tribe Gifts. In the chronicles I ST, I generally limit them to what Gifts would be appropriate for the pack totem to assist them with in their pack quest. If Unicorn or Bear is their pack totem, they'll find it easier to learn healing gifts. With Stag, some of the Fianna tribal gifts may be available. If it is a war totem, then Ahroun gifts are in play. They'll be a bit more chiminage involved, but not too badly.

                If PCs try to learn gifts outside of that arrangement which don't make sense given their pack totem and quest, then they'll need to find spirits totally unrelated to them, and their chiminage price will be steep even assuming they're willing to teach.

                If you are saying that Spirit of the Fray and Healing gifts are absolutely essential, and packs without them are essentially crippled, then you must be running an extremely combat heavy chronicle. Nothing wrong with that if that is the expectation of your gaming group, but that is not universal. Having those gifts out of auspice is certainly not normal in any of the games I've played.
                What you said. Yes we are a really aggressive pack. But again , there are some low level gifts too useful to not be allowed to play, and I think that to not learn some useful tricks to survive it's a really stupid decision from a garou, due to their kind of life , realistically.

                Edit; in this case my character is a ''judge and jury'' get of fenris philodox. Spirit of the Fray to me is more than well suited for such a concept.
                Also. This '' characters acting out of auspices'' really depends on the kind of character they are. An uktena theurge will never be the same as a Get theurge and so on. I honestly really love some concept like Mari or Albrecht: Mari often goes ahroun more than Albrecht, still, she's a powerful theurge. Albrecht often calms down other garou in the stories, this doesn't mean he's a philodox and so on.
                If a player ask me to play a Get Theurge that submit spirits through violence, intimidation and gifts and I like the concept, to me he must be free to explore his character, same with a calm and disciplined ahroun-fenris who prefers tactical and inspirational gifts maybe with one out of auspice gift from galliard, instead of a living stereotype.
                They can fit their auspice roles in a lot of ways.
                Last edited by Helur; 12-25-2018, 03:27 PM.


                -'' We are the unsullied.
                We are the inheritors.
                We are the Pure ''-

                I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Helur View Post
                  We totally allow to buy rank one and rank two gifts from other auspice/tribe/breed as the book totally allow it, and if there are garou that can teach you the gift you want.
                  We ask for heavy chiminage only for rank 3 or 4 gifts from other lists, but we do not allow to buy out of-breed/tribe/auspice most of rank 4 gifts and all rank 5.
                  I think it's not realistic to find rank 2+ without spirit of the fray, even the most anti-physical,low rage-theurge would find it really useful. Also, a pack without a theurge, therefore without Healing power, will be totally fucked.
                  The manual of course allows cross-breed gifts, the dynamics though are left to the ST to decide. Chiminage and quests are common means of persuading spirits into teaching gifts and they are expected to grow in difficulty as the level of the gift grows; it's also mentioned that learning from other lists is more difficult, and in case of tribe gifts the totem breed has pacts only with its children and they're under no obligation of teaching their knowledge to others. I.e., I couldn't really see a Griffin spirit teaching anything to homids.

                  Speaking about Spirit of the Fray in particular: it's a gift that exists to give Ahrouns initiative in combat, but allowing everyone to take it means that either the party gets an unfair advantage against everyone else (the ahroun attacking first is a thing, the whole pack of four acting before their adversaries a completely different thing) or that you apply the same rules with the enemies and it's just as the gift never existed since everyone uses it. Whatever the case, widespreading a peculiar mechanic -any single one- removes characterization from the game.

                  It's not that SotF is a gamebreaking gift anyway, so there's little harm in spreading it - I mean, if I need to put six enemy spirits instead of four because the first two always gets destroyed in the first round I can do it effortlessly, the narrative weight of this gift is almost zero. Still, I believe that spreading it through the whole party steals part of the uniqueness from the ahrouns.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X