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Building a powerful non-combat character.

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  • Building a powerful non-combat character.

    So fighting things with fist or claw or fang has never really been my thing, and while I do find gunplay a bit more enjoyable, even that isn't always ideal. So, as my group is transitioning into W20 (and already has 3 combat focused types, all stabby and bitey), I was looking to do something a bit different and looking for input in how to do it well.

    Also, it's set in the late medieval period. I figure that a socially inclined character might work best as an option, but have also been tempted by something like a financial/bureaucratic wizard, though that one seems harder to pull off and be functional in both werewolf and human society with its strengths, not to mention it would probably be somewhat selfish with the screen time?

    There is the option for kinfolk, apparently, but those seem less functional than a simple, low-rage character. Other than that I don't know too much about how to approach this. The group is relatively experienced though so knowing a few of the "optimal" tricks would be helpful, or at least just what is considered abnormally good and bad.

    Thanks in advance for any and all input

  • #2
    The Auspice roles and mindsets can differ considerably depending whether a particular Garou was born under the waning moon or the waxing moon. These roles and archetypes are described in "Book of the Auspices" . I would look into it for ideas and inspiration ; especially at the Ragabash, Philodox, and Galliard differences and distinctions.

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    • #3
      I have a couple ideas about it.
      Glass walkers, shadow lords, silver fangs but also sometimes bone gnawers would work. Kinfolk background is always useful in every profile.

      Spirit Merchant: ( wolf among sheep, manipulator of humanity) Theurge or Philodox. High social and Mental. Rituals required to bind and summon spirits to use also in combat. Allies, Contacts, Resources, Rituals

      The Mastermind: ( leader and tactical power) Philodox or Galliard. High Social. Tactical and gifts with aoe. High dexterity or stamina, touch of stealth and intelligence. Contacts, Allies, but also pure breed is highly useful.

      The ''I know everything and you don't know a single fuck'' : ( informations trader) Ragabash or Theurge. High mental, plus subterfuge and empathy. Contacts and contacts and contacts. Stealth gifts and maybe a touch of spiritual power ( that can be useful for combat ).

      The shadow of the palace: ( manipulator and spy) Ragabash or Galliard , high mental and social, subterfuge as hell, social stuff. Brawl or Weaponry just for self defence. Contacts and Allies.


      -'' We are the unsullied.
      We are the inheritors.
      We are the Pure ''-

      I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

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      • #4
        It kind of depends on what kind of 'power' you want. Werewolves can be incredibly powerful in the social arena, though it takes more mechanical finesse than Dominate or Presence in Vampire.

        The first big consideration is low Rage characters vs. high Rage characters. Low Rage lets you do a lot more around normal humans, and even ensures you don't upset other werewolves/supernaturals if your Willpower isn't heavily invested in (though it should be for a social character), but then you don't get all the benefits of Rage. High Rage characters in the social arena are doable, but very focused on social force (there's a reason werewolves can roll Rage instead of Intimidation if it's high enough). High Rage means you're not going to be a a spy, or a social butterfly, but you could send a pack of inquistors running.

        Then, as noted above, Auspice should guide you to the kind of role you're going to take. The Auspice Gift lists are full of social powers appropriate to what they do.

        Homids get the most general social stuff, so that's probably a good choice unless you're just focusing on werewolf social matters, where lupus can be advantageous. Metis have some nice Gifts, but the social stigma and deformities are a problem.

        There are few 'antisocial' Tribes. Their Gifts tend to support their themes. If you want a bard style character, the Fianna have you covered. If you want a manipulative bastard, the Shadow Lords are there for you. Ex.

        Purebreed is insanely powerful for social rolls against werewolves (including enemy ones).

        If you're using Merits and Flaws... there's plenty of decent Social ones.

        Do not overlook Subterfuge even for honest characters.

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        • #5
          The problem with being the Human society guy in a pack of "HIT THINGS" is there's EITHER going to be more focus on hitting things or he's going to try and balance it out and its going to be you doing stuff while they try not to explode and hit things. I would say build social finess as a secondary thing you can do in the background(contacts, allies, Kinfolk cover this well) while you work on control and buff/debuff options(WHich often have good uses in human society).

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          • #6
            Hmm.

            Tribe: Warders of Man
            Auspice: Ragabash
            Breed: Homid
            Concept: Itinerant Priest

            Attributes: Physical (Tertiary) - Strength 2 Dexterity 2 Stamina 2; Social (Primary) - Charisma 4 Manipulation 3 Appearance 3; Mental (Secondary) - Perception 3 Wits 3 Intelligence 2

            Talents (Primary) Alertness 2 Brawl 1 Dodge 1 Empathy 3 Expression 2 Intimidation 1 Legerdemain 1 Subterfuge 5
            Skills (Tertiary) Etiquette 2 Leadership 1 Melee 1 Stealth 2 Survival 1
            Knowledge (Secondary) Academics 2 Enigmas 1 Hearth Wisdom 2 Investigation 1 Linguistics 3* Politics 1

            Backgrounds: Contacts 4 Mentor 2 Resources 1 Totem 1

            Gifts: Persuasion, Blur of the Milky Eye, Gift of Salt

            Renown: Glory 1 Honor 1 Wisdom 1

            Rage 1 Gnosis 1 Willpower 3

            *(I can't recall DA:WW's specifics about Linguistics rules, but in this case he can understand whatever the regional language is, Latin, and can get by in the neighboring languages.)

            That's just off the top of my head. Someone who has a reason for being involved in human society while still going off with the rest of the pack, can associate with the higher and lower ends of medieval society, serves as the "face" (and if need be, point man) of the group while not being completely helpless when violence happens.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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            • #7
              The late Middle Ages is not known for its bureaucracy or finances. They exist to a certain degree, but Europe lacks a large enough class of educated literates to staff a large bureaucracy or a large enough tax base to pay for one. The laws are few and there is only a handful of people whose permission you may need to get. The issue is not navigating red tape, it's being politically powerful enough to have access to the right person. Finance in the era is limited, and what does exist is dominated by either local moneylending Jews or the Italians. The Italians control international banking in this era.

              If you are looking for a person who can get things done in the local human community, I would just create a character who had a very large Kinfolk Background and establish that family as being important locally. It might be a minor noble house, or it may just be a large landowner who has tenants of their own. The family probably controls one or mills which is essential in the medieval economy - the mill is where grain is turned into flour. Landowners of whatever social status have power because most wealth is based on land.

              If it is a more city based chronicle, it might be the most important family in one of the more important and wealthy town guilds maybe wool merchants, lawyers, or apothecaries. Ones that deal in high value items with limited competition. You can thus control wealth and the access it brings. If the kinfolk family is dominant in the Guild, they can control promotion and influence in the Guild. Both enable you to influence city politics.

              The Garou's power then is based on the control being a Garou gives over that kinfolk family. Instead of getting things done by yourself, you simply delegate to one of your Kinfolk. To emulate that, you just need appropriate Backgrounds - Kinfolk obviosuly, but more powerful or knowledgeable kinfolk would be Allies and Contacts, while their collective wealth would be Resources.

              If you don't want to be an influence peddler, then you need to useful in other ways. A Theurge who concentrates on Gnosis, umbral knowledge, spirits, etc. can be extremely useful. A Philodox with ambitious can build political alliances within the sept by trading favors and getting things done, and being a legal expert who everyone can go to for advice. A Galliard who concentrates on learning lore, uncovering secrets, and keeping an information network can be useful.

              "Power" is a relative concept. You need to figure out what kind of role would be useful in your ST's setting, and then build a character who is really good at that - whatever it is.
              Last edited by Black Fox; 01-05-2019, 09:53 PM.

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              • #8
                I think about the closest you get to the modern concept of a bureaucracy in medieval Europe is the clergy, and even they're all over the place in terms of just how much education or even literacy they may have. For every Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, or Peter Abelard (or even Heloise d'Argenteuil, Herrad of Landsberg, or Hildegard of Bingen), there's a parish priest who can barely read Latin, a monastic scribe simply copying letters he doesn't even understand, or a Bishop who bought the title and is little more than a successful warlord with an ecclesiastic rank. (I'm still sad there was never a full sourcebook on the medieval Catholic Church and how to make characters who are part of it.)



                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                • #9
                  Late Medieval covers a wide swath of area, I mean late Medieval Venice or the Byzantine Empire is going to be very different than England or Denmark.

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                  • #10
                    oh an idea I had for a bit?

                    hows a kinfolk who works in the media go about hiding or making more prominent a particular news piece?


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                      oh an idea I had for a bit?

                      hows a kinfolk who works in the media go about hiding or making more prominent a particular news piece?
                      In general? Be an editor or producer.


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                      • #12
                        if hes just a reporter?


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                          if hes just a reporter?

                          Social networking.

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