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Pierced Veil and the effects

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  • Pierced Veil and the effects

    How would you react to the following scenario? (Background: 1861 Australia Werewolf game. 4 player characters and 2 NPCs. All auspices represented in the pack. Various Tribes {Bone Gnawer, Bunyip, Child of Gaia, Fianna, Silver Fang, White Howler - in this game only some of the White Howlers walked the Spiral and became the Black Spiral Dancers.} All are Homid. All are Rank 2 or 3.)

    A character with the Pierced Veil flaw got hit with the True Fear gift and went running full out in Crinos form - down the street of a good sized town from a warehouse on the docks in the late afternoon. For the first two turns, a packmate that does cause the Delirium was running along side him. The remaining two turns, as well as the four turns to return to the warehouse, he was running solo. In Crinos. All but the Ahroun had been affected by the Gift.

    I'm trying to come up with the consequences in the aftermath of the events and looking to get others' opinions.

  • #2
    This is how I would run it as an ST.

    Run the normal Delerium effects in regards to the regular Garou. But anyone who saw the Garou with the flaw know they saw a half man-half wolf running around. The other Garou did not "cover" the flawed Garou.

    Among the human community that witnessed it, they believe what they saw. There will be reports spread by word. and the local newspaper will print what the people saw, but written in a way that does not discredit the newspaper - even if people from there witnessed. The article would say things like "eyewitnesses report" or "witnesses describe" and describe things like there was a "commotion" or "confusion." The article would probably be relegated to the backpages somewhere. It would probably lead to a local legend, and be reported in similar newspaper articles about the Jersey Devil or Springheeled Jack. So give the new local legend a good name. It'll go down in history and folklore.

    As long as that Garou is not seen again, things will die down among the humans. It MIGHT attract actual werewolf hunters or occultists, but other than speaking to the actual eyewitnesses, they shouldn't actually be able to prove anything or track the PC down provided the PCs are smart and lay low.

    The local sept of the PCs will likely move to punish the PC with the flaw (and to a lesser degree the other Garou who ran who did invoke the Delerium). They don't get a freebie simply because they lost the roll, or that the one PC had a flaw and couldn't help it. Doesn't matter. Hit them with Honor renown loss with harming the Veil - the flawed PC gets the -5, while the others get a lesser renown loss.

    Depending on what has happened before with the character with that Pierced Veil flaw, I'd also consider whether it would be appropriate to perform one of the lesser Rite of Punishment like Stone of Scorn or Rite of Ostracism (but if so, any renown loss would be limited to the greater losses of the rite, not in addition to a separate renown loss as I'd find that excessive.) If this is the first time the sept learned about the Garou's flaw, or if that PC was previously really good at compensating for that flaw, I wouldn't do the rite, but I'd let the PC know if it happens again the rite will be done. And I'd have all the NPC sept members really begin to be a hard ass on him. After all, he is now a major liable who screwed up once, and who wants to deal with that?.
    Last edited by Black Fox; 02-25-2019, 01:18 AM.


    • #3
      Thanks for the response, Black Fox.

      Turns out that both myself and the coST misunderstood a bit. The character with the Pierced Veil didn't shift into Crinos until he returned from running off... Still got seen by a local artist, who drew him up for the town paper.

      We had the character go off on an umbral quest to find the original ancestor with the flaw and he was able to buy it off at the same cost of buying up an Attribute.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
        Run the normal Delerium effects in regards to the regular Garou. But anyone who saw the Garou with the flaw know they saw a half man-half wolf running around. The other Garou did not "cover" the flawed Garou.
        I would argue that other garou would cover him up.

        Delirium, as I understand it, covers the scene. So the moments leading up to the crinos seen are also covered.


        • #5
          I heavily disagree.

          The Delerium may last a scene, but it is very specific as to what it covers. You don't recognize THAT Garou (to whatever degree on the Delerium Chart based on WP). It doesn't distort anything else. People would still know various animals are those animals and that people are people. It is not a schizophrenic break with reality, but a specific effect based on the individual Garou and their reaction to it. The Garou with the Pierced Veil flaw should not be any more distorted than any non-Garou.

          Now of course, certain manifestations of the Delerium may inadvertently protect the other Garou. If someone goes catatonic and passes out, then obviously they can't witness anything. But most other effects, while rendering people irrational, don't describe anything that suggests anything else gets distorted - so neither should the Garou with the flaw.

          Pierced Veil is a 3 point flaw which is pretty serious when it comes to roleplay. Being extremely forgetful to the point you don't remember tasks you've been assigned or when events happened (Absent Minded), having a permanent mental illness in the form of a derangement (Deranged), a powerful immortal being who has sworn a vendetta against your family line (Foe from the Past), a maximum Rage of only 4 (Docile three points), a permanent two dice penalty to all Social rolls involving Garou (Notoriety), and having a major physical defect (Deformity, Lame, Monstrous, One Arm) are other examples of a three point flaw. A PC should not be able to avoid the negative effects - and having a PC being able to negate that flaw because a packmate is nearby defeats its purpose. PC packmates being near one another is almost a given.


          • #6
            It depends on one's style of play. My PCs separate a lot of times, because the scene calls for it. So, having a packmate near isn't necessarily a given.

            I can't imagine that in a scene where there are two Crinos forms a human onlooker would fall into the Delirium, panic, hide and later tell the police/reporters that there was one man-wolf-moster and one big animal, probably a bear. Because the Veil part of the Delirium, meaning the memory alteration due to rationalizing or traumatic suppression should cover the scene entirely. Meaning it also should cover the Klaive, for the bear didn't bring a sword to a road-side diner, as well as the transformation itself, for there wasn't a human turning into a bear - unless there was a Pierced Veil Guhral.

            One certainly could interpret the Flaw, like you state, but it would go beyond my personal level of suspension of disbelief, if the Delirium or the Flaw worked that way.


            • #7
              Heinrich's interpretation seems the most likely one. If two Garou appear on the scene, I'd probably make it dependent on the WP of the humans involved - anything below a 7 will simply not retain enough memories of the scene to describe the second creature as anything but "something big and angry", just like they wouldn't be able to describe exactly which way they fled a building or from where they took the iron bar to fight the creature. 7 and 8 would rationalize the 'normal' Garou as some sort of bear or similar animal, but might have troublingly accurate memories of the pierced-veil-one. And 9 and 10 don't forget anything, of course.
              Last edited by Cifer; 05-15-2019, 06:36 PM.