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Do female Hyaena Ajaba have...you know...

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  • Do female Hyaena Ajaba have...you know...

    Pseudo-penises.

  • #2
    Most assuredly, yes.


    “Nobody is purely good or purely evil. Most of us are in-between. There are moths that explore the day and butterflies that play at night.”
    - Suzy Kassem, Rise Up and Salute The Sun
    (She/Her)

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    • #3
      In hyena form, of course. In human form, no. In the hybrid forms, well, whatever you and your game group would like.

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      • #4
        I wouldn't be surprised if certain relatively rare enlargements in humans are more common among female Ajaba, though none of those get to the point of being considered pseudo-penises.

        It's also worth noting that only one of the three hyena species is considered to have a pseudo-penis in the first place. While The Ajaba are very thematically oriented around the behaviors of the spotted hyena (which is the most dominate hyena in sub-Saharan Africa), but there's not reason the stripped and brown hyenas - with their own morphologies - wouldn't be present.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          I wouldn't be surprised if certain relatively rare enlargements in humans are more common among female Ajaba, though none of those get to the point of being considered pseudo-penises.
          I'm sorry, what do you mean? I'm not sure I follow.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
            In hyena form, of course. In human form, no. In the hybrid forms, well, whatever you and your game group would like.
            IIRC, the Crinos and other half-n-half forms are all meant to be combat forms (thou the Corax might disagree), so any external genitalia is retracted inside the body. At least that's how I remember Ethan Skemp explaining it once.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post

              I'm sorry, what do you mean? I'm not sure I follow.
              Clitoromegaly or macroclitoris is the technical term.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                The older Ajaba mentions in the books said Hermaphroditism is a common deformity for Metis.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  The older Ajaba mentions in the books said Hermaphroditism is a common deformity for Metis.
                  Really not a fan of “being intersex” being thrown out as a magical deformity.


                  Call me Remi. Female pronouns for me, please.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                    The older Ajaba mentions in the books said Hermaphroditism is a common deformity for Metis.
                    It's admittedly been a fair while since I read their section of the original Bastet book or the revised Changing Breeds book, but the impression I've had over the years is that their metis are frequently hermaphroditic not as a deformity but rather because of the role biological sex plays in their auspice system and how they are separated from it. This may be more head canon than what is actually there though, as I don't have either book at hand to check.

                    Fun Fact: UC Berkeley has had a hyena breeding colony for scientific research purposes for the past 30 years. Sadly, it appears to be in the process of shutting down due to lack of funding. Some effort is being made to relocate the project to Texas. But for those of you who'd like to try an Ajaba centered chronicle in California, there you go.
                    Last edited by No One of Consequence; 06-06-2019, 02:49 PM.


                    What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                    Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                      In the hybrid forms.
                      Not if it is an obstacle to combat prowess. Like female garou boobs.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                        Really not a fan of “being intersex” being thrown out as a magical deformity.
                        You don't have to like it, but it doesn't change the fact that biological intersex is literally a deviation caused from errors and atavisms in the organism's formative processes.
                        Having it as a consequence of an act that is established to cause deformities only makes sense.


                        And if you want to talk about what that means to the players, well...
                        • Please separate players form characters. WE know there's no moral fault in not being "perfect", for whatever that's worth.
                        • Something "bad" can be portrayed without being endorsed by the players.
                          • For example: the game is terrifyingly violent, yet we accept the portrayal of such violence in-game. The same can be said of any subject.

                        This is particularly important with bete. They are very much a collectivist extreme compared to humans. Your role in the grander setting of your tribe and your world is more important than your desires, your very life. Your freedoms are only acknowledged within the constraints of your duty. If you cannot or will not fulfill an important role, your kin WILL think less of you.

                        This gives the conformists strength.
                        This gives the outliers suffering.
                        Such is part and parcel of the experience.
                        Last edited by Synapse; 06-07-2019, 10:56 AM. Reason: formatting

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                          You don't have to like it, but it doesn't change the fact that biological intersex is literally a deviation caused from errors and atavisms in the organism's formative processes.
                          I think it could be reasonable to ask for this to not turn into a debate about the problematic elements of the Metis (we just had one a month ago).

                          This... not so much. Red hair is a genetic "deviation" and there's a good reason why it's not a magical deformity. If being a Metis with red hair caused you to have to pay double freebie/XP for Gnosis, and all Gnosis rolls were +3 diff because of how red hair causes soullessness, I highly doubt anyone would be defending that being in the books.

                          Having it as a consequence of an act that is established to cause deformities only makes sense.
                          It only makes sense in you consider an intersex condition a deformity... which is the problem in the first place.

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                          • #14
                            If you want to chalk the word deformity to just stigma, well, metis are stigmatized. I did bring it this up.

                            Do you want to just talk about something randomly "off-model"? Then every single difference, change, mutation and fault fits. From red hair to missing brain. It's not a very useful definition, since it's too broad to do anything but acknowledge change.

                            I am fine with calling it a deformity because it fits the bill of "off-model + causes problems". This is also in accordance with the fact that Metis are the consequence of a (magical, although this doesn't matter for this particular topic) incestuous relation, which is a strong factor for causing defects.
                            And I am fine with calling it a flaw because the game calls "flaws" many things that hinder your character - including externalities like social stigma.

                            The books treat this sensibly enough: The metis' suffering due to these differences are almost exclusively caused by their own people rejecting them. This is shown very clearly a problem with most bete societies.






                            So, back to topic: Yeah. Ajaba females should have pseudo-penises in their animal forms. War forms and humanoid forms wouldn't.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                              Such is part and parcel of the experience.
                              One of the common tropes of the gothic horror genre from which the World of Darkness derives is the idea of 'the sins of the father being visited upon the son' (or whichever genders fit), the idea that a character will suffer greatly for some past action they had nothing to do with. Family curses, inherited insanity, inhuman heritage, or even something as mundane as what happens in VC Andrews's Flowers in the Attic. And like the kids in that book, metis are punished - by nature and society - for their parents' incestuous acts. It is very much not fair, but that is the oppressive nature of the Gothic part of a Gothic-Punk universe. (But by the same token, the Punk half is about rebelling against all that oppression and chains of the past, including metis standing up for themselves and demanding respect. And if in your games, you want to draw parallels between metis and people with birth defects, those born intersex, mixed race children, or any other group that has suffered from societal prejudices and had to struggle for acceptance and respect, that's one of the reasons they exist in the game.)


                              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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