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Kinfolk and Renown - What's the Benefit?

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  • Kinfolk and Renown - What's the Benefit?

    In Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes and W20's core book, Kinfolk have a way to get renown on a limited basis. However, they can't use it to gain rank*, and thus can't buy any higher level gifts; and, unlike Forsaken, Renown doesn't automatically grant a gift. Obviously there are bragging rights involved, and there are a small handful of Fetishes that COULD ping off of Renown (I think... I am remembering one from my last MET LARP chronicle, but they also may have made that one custom - and as a claw fetish, a homid kin couldn't get it anyways). But those are all iffy benefits at best, and they can fade quickly. Is there any real benefit to gaining renown that I haven't listed?

    *There may be an exception, possibly, Mokole Kin with Gifts or magical talents - per their core book and MET write-ups, they are often considered Mokole as long as they are following a compatible tradition/craft and are given an Auspice, and can even join a clutch - the implication there being that a Mokole Kinfolk could potentially gain rank.

  • #2
    Unfortunately it's completely narrative social benefits. Garou should treat Kin with Renown better than normal but... not mechanics to it. Of course this is a problem with Renown in general that it doesn't actually do anything by itself.


    • #3
      Renown can get them positions at smaller Caerns that don't have enough Garou to cover. Also it can boost your options for mates...mainly fluff stuff.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Damian May View Post
        Renown can get them positions at smaller Caerns that don't have enough Garou to cover. Also it can boost your options for mates...mainly fluff stuff.
        That actually is something kind of useful. The issue I had is that both sections were optional rules and very clearly showed that they gave them the effort that I see in a lot of "optional" systems. I agree with Heavy Arms that Renown doesn't have a lot of benefit mechanically on its own, but I'd be okay with that if the fluff options for Kinfolk were spelled out or even just given some suggestions beyond "Yeah, you may get a bit of recognition for going through LITERAL HELL."


        • #5
          Renown is your general reputation among Garou based on actual accomplishments. A kinfolk who earns Renown has basically gained the same reputation as a Garou doing it (probably more since kinfolk generally aren't in consideration). In practice, Garou giving kinfolk Renown is equivalent to humans giving animals police rank (like dogs in the K-9 units) and meritorious service medals in law enforcement and military. It is part merit, and mostly being a prized mascot who provided real and valuable service. It is a mark of esteem which elevates the kinfolk above others of his kind.

          You can probably look at Rank as the "slot" earned by the Rite that allows Garou to learn what level of Gifts. The Rank, assigned by the Rite, is what shows the spirits that this Garou is ready to learn certain Gifts from the spirits. It is probably part of the original agreement the first Garou made with the spirits in order to learn Gifts which divided them into ranked classes, each rank reserved only for Garou who earned the right to learn them according to their peers. Since kinfolk can't normally learn Gifts, rank is immaterial to them.


          • #6
            Speaking of Forsaken and how renown was handled in regards to it beimg very clear it had a function beyond just social status among werewolf society, especially in regards to gifts in 2E, it would be HARD to go back to purely Apocalype's system.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              Garou should treat Kin with Renown better than normal but...
              And "better than normal" in practice typically means any Kin the Garou in question is not directly related to is treated anywhere between "dumb-groupie" and outright "property of the tribe". Makes it an even more meaningless concept.

              ...And yet, if you're Kin and viewed as next to worthless by the Garou, that tiny bit of Renown could still be the most important thing to your self esteem in your entire life.


              • #8
                Eh. I always find the more extreme takes on the Garou-Kinfolk dynamic silly. The default natural of Kin being second class citizens, and valued in a fashion that forces and extremely imbalanced power dynamic even in the most caring mates is plenty fucked up and dark. When you get to the point where you're assuming the default stance of the Garou is, "I'm breaking the Litany every time I think about Kinfolk," it's clearly too far gone in how you're having your Kin treated.


                • #9
                  Held the reincarnate position since I glanced through unsung heroes.

                  Maybe renown helps them apply for reincarnation as a Garou

                  In this life though probably gets them more acclaim. and somewhat more preferential positions in the sept.