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Do you allow your players to transform instantly into Crinos?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lian View Post


    Isn't "Entering combat" a way to get rage... or is that just a house rule we've been playing with.
    Entering any kind of strong emotion actually.

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    • #17
      Rage or Primal Urge roll, also nothing stopping someone who chooses to roll also spending for Rage actions (although it's more efficient to rage to Crinos)

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      • #18
        Incidentally, other WoD games tend to assume that it doesn't take much time for werewolves to change, perhaps assuming that Rage would always end up spent. In fact, Avenger Imbued even began to refer to Garou as "flickers" because of this.

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        • #19
          If you need to get into actions instantly, spend Rage. That’s what it’s for. If you have time, take it.


          Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
            If you need to get into actions instantly, spend Rage. That’s what it’s for. If you have time, take it.
            Not if you want to use Gnosis - like for Spirit of the Fray

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            • #21
              Spending Gnosis on SotF is only really worth it if you're up against other things with super Init, or if you're using optional/house rules on Init. Most of the time the Gnosis on it isn't worth it for one turn.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                Not if you want to use Gnosis - like for Spirit of the Fray
                If you’re caught flat footed and need to choose one or the other, well done for your attacker. They’ve managed to get an advantage. Maybe your Garou should be better prepared next time.


                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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                • #23
                  There's other options that I remember, even if I'm rusty on Werewolf; spending a gnosis to come through and attack from the Umbra, Jam tech in the opening round to deal with firearms, Spiritual wrath so they can't soak an attack, and not to mention activating Luna's Armour

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                  • #24
                    Yes, if we cherry pick the perfect selection of Gnosis based combat Gifts, it might be worth it to spend Gnosis on SotF and go first to use those instead of spending Rage on shifting. At least until you throw Chaos Mechanics into the mix and can do both.

                    Meanwhile in normal play, SotF puts a combat focused Garou so high up the initiative roster every round with it's passive bonus, that they're going to act before 99.9% of things in the WoD that don't also have SotF, so they're not going to worry about the Gnosis option the vast majority of the time.

                    Gnosis also isn't as free flowing as Rage or WP, so tossing 5 Gnosis out on the first round of combat is... probably not a great idea.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                      If you’re caught flat footed and need to choose one or the other, well done for your attacker. They’ve managed to get an advantage. Maybe your Garou should be better prepared next time.
                      That really only applies to monstrously fast enemies. After all, even without Gnosis expenditure, SotF adds a flat +10 to your initiative that will likely put you at the top of the list whatever you roll.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                        Yes, if we cherry pick the perfect selection of Gnosis based combat Gifts, it might be worth it to spend Gnosis on SotF and go first to use those instead of spending Rage on shifting. At least until you throw Chaos Mechanics into the mix and can do both.

                        Meanwhile in normal play, SotF puts a combat focused Garou so high up the initiative roster every round with it's passive bonus, that they're going to act before 99.9% of things in the WoD that don't also have SotF, so they're not going to worry about the Gnosis option the vast majority of the time.

                        Gnosis also isn't as free flowing as Rage or WP, so tossing 5 Gnosis out on the first round of combat is... probably not a great idea.
                        I wasn't talking about using ALL of them at once, but for the situations that any one of those gifts would be a powerful opening move

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                        • #27
                          The problem is most of the Gnosis based combat Gifts are really bad ideas for that.

                          Spiritual Wrath - for example - requires a claw attack... so you need to shift in a lot of situations to even use it. Luna's Armor might grant you soak dice greater than shifting to Crinos or Hispo can... or might not... and you could use Steel Fur instead (pretty much the only reason to buy Steel Fur is that you can use it with Rage).

                          The problem is these are generally less "powerful opening moves" and more either highly situational, or something a character is carefully built around to make use of.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                            The problem is most of the Gnosis based combat Gifts are really bad ideas for that.

                            Spiritual Wrath - for example - requires a claw attack... so you need to shift in a lot of situations to even use it. Luna's Armor might grant you soak dice greater than shifting to Crinos or Hispo can... or might not... and you could use Steel Fur instead (pretty much the only reason to buy Steel Fur is that you can use it with Rage).

                            The problem is these are generally less "powerful opening moves" and more either highly situational, or something a character is carefully built around to make use of.


                            Does anyone get Steel fur and Luna's armor?

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                            • #29
                              Steel fur is Glass walkers
                              Lunas armor - Child of Gaia, Silver Fang and Shadow Lord.

                              But, less likely to buy steel for out of tribe, it gives a social penalty toward non Glass walkers, and it gives a Dex penalty
                              It has the advantage of not needing Gnosis, but also .. Does Luna's armor still have the requirement of having the moon visible to activate?
                              Last edited by Illithid; 05-16-2019, 12:32 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                                That really only applies to monstrously fast enemies. After all, even without Gnosis expenditure, SotF adds a flat +10 to your initiative that will likely put you at the top of the list whatever you roll.
                                You seem to be operating under the assumption that every character will have a level 2 Ahroun Gift, whereas a better assumption would be more Garou need to choose between Rage and Gnosis in a turn.


                                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

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