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  • #16
    Originally posted by heinrich View Post
    Except their credibility.

    I mean, what would be the reason to not declare vampires enemies of Gaia?

    They are, by their own rulebooks admission, monsters.

    EDIT:
    However, they WtA wouldn't loose anything, if VtM wasn't part of the WoD.
    MtA and CtD work so much better with WtA. Even WtO does.
    Vampires could be their own phenomena, with no connection to Wyrm.
    Also, VtM is still the biggest and most importanrt part of oWoD. It is the base for all other splats.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lashet View Post
      Also, VtM is still the biggest and most importanrt part of oWoD. It is the base for all other splats.
      It makes the most money, yes. But you can play any other gameline without a single vampire in it. You can play *all* of the gamelines without using any of the others, except possibly Orpheus. Vampire just was the first.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
        It makes the most money, yes. But you can play any other gameline without a single vampire in it. You can play *all* of the gamelines without using any of the others, except possibly Orpheus. Vampire just was the first.
        I still don't get what this hate bring to the game expect a tension between fans. It just made Carol a hypocrite motherfuckers

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Lashet View Post

          I still don't get what this hate bring to the game expect a tension between fans. It just made Carol a hypocrite motherfuckers
          Explanation why it happens. Garou are creatures of life and vampires are creatures of death. That doesn't mean their fans should hate each other, most of us here play multiple WoD games and for those that don't like WtA the others are still great.

          Also, Carol?


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lashet View Post
            I still don't get what this hate bring to the game expect a tension between fans.
            Tension between fans? Again, see: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...29#post1334829
            Anybody who brings the in-game conflict into RL as actual tension between 'fandoms' needs to take a step back from it all. It's a game.
            Last edited by Ambrosia; 09-10-2019, 01:23 PM.


            cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
            cWoD Alternative Damage Roll System ||| My explanation of cWoD Damage Levels ||| 'Interesting' Strength Attribute Stuff
            EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF! ||| How Technocrats don't think they are Mages

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            • #21
              Am I the only one who keeps wondering just who this "Carol" is? A friend of OP that plays Werewolf and hates Vampire, maybe?

              At any rate, obviously conflict between Garou and Kindred shouldn't mean conflict between their respective fandoms. In fact, it's very normal for people to enjoy both gamelines.
              It makes sense, in universe, for werewolves to hate vampires. If some Werewolf player is giving you grief, OP, your issue should be with that one player, not the game itself.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                Vampires could be their own phenomena, with no connection to Wyrm.
                And within their own gameline, they are. But Garou see everything through a Gaian prism, they don't recognize the Christian God and couldn't imagine crediting the vampire's own beliefs or for them to have any origin beyond the Wyrm. So, to a Garou's eyes, vampires are, at best, walking crimes against Gaia who break Her cycle of life and death or, at worst, world-eating Eldritch Abominations (see Antediluvians).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
                  Am I the only one who keeps wondering just who this "Carol" is? A friend of OP that plays Werewolf and hates Vampire, maybe?

                  At any rate, obviously conflict between Garou and Kindred shouldn't mean conflict between their respective fandoms. In fact, it's very normal for people to enjoy both gamelines.
                  It makes sense, in universe, for werewolves to hate vampires. If some Werewolf player is giving you grief, OP, your issue should be with that one player, not the game itself.
                  I mean, this is very common thing here. A vampire fan comes in here saying WtA should be more like VtM, the garou more monstrous and so on. Not realising that the games have different themes.


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                  • #24
                    I think it's a lot less common than it was 20 years ago.

                    IME, back when there was just the WoD, the tension between fans of the games was much higher and the OP's concerns could have been more meaningful to me. Call it a silver lining or whatever, but the original end of the WoD, and the start of the (now) CofD, heralded a fairly large unification of WoD fans (esp. as this time period was also a major shift in popular game design, and small press distribution).

                    -----------------

                    Of course, pretty much everyone in the WoD hates vampires. The idea that it's a specifically Garou thing is... well... a bit of a huh?

                    Mages, at best, view them as threats to their own mortal communities and want to at least protect their un-Awakened people from such monsters. The Hermetics want them dead (and have waged two full wars on them) for taking in the Tremere. The Chorus, Cult, and Euthanatos, all view vampires (or at least western vampires) as a direct affront to their beliefs, while most of the rest of the Traditions fine their magic natural horrible enough to not tolerate them either. Oh and of course the Technocracy wants all vampires dead too, even if they're a low priority for the Pogrom.

                    In the default Changeling view, vampires are twisted by Banality, making them enemies of most right thinking ones. Most of the changelings believe vampires are a cursed off-shoot of the Red Caps, and even the Red Caps try to twist things so their Kith isn't actually responsible for it. It takes a lot for the Red Caps to come up with an alternative myth on how vampires came about just to absolve a member of their Kith in the distant past... but vampires managed to be disliked enough that they do.

                    Wraiths are more neutral on vampires, but vampires are dangerous threats to Wraiths without meaning it (though so are most supernaturals in the WoD). Wraiths really despise any of the Necromancy vampires though, as well they should since those are vampires that are studying ways to enslave them.

                    Mummy, Kuei-jin (despite being game lines that started as VtM supplements!), and the Imbued all think normal Western vampires are abominations and best killed off as well.

                    Which leaves... Demon... as the one game where the default position on vampires isn't "kill it on sight," or, "kill it if you can, otherwise wait and kill it when you have a better chance."


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                      Also, Carol?
                      Sorry. My autocorrection hate me

                      To Heavy Arms. With all this is true, only Garou has "hunt and kill them whenever you can".Others can disgust, hate or certainly distrust them but not the whole splat hate all of the whole splat.
                      Last edited by Lashet; 09-10-2019, 02:29 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                        I mean, this is very common thing here. A vampire fan comes in here saying WtA should be more like VtM, the garou more monstrous and so on. Not realising that the games have different themes.
                        Yep. And that's could be easily avoided if there weren't that stupid trope.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lashet View Post
                          Why do Garou still hate vampires in W20, and how their relationships gona work V/W5?
                          I mean I WANT to like WtA but all their racism toward vampires always made me sick (also we all knew which game line is more popular so VtM-fans can easily be mad at WtA and for a good reasons). This trope is pretty irritating and it's not a greater pleasure to play a supernatural equivalent of Aryan Brotherhood.
                          You know when vampires drink blood they produce orgasmic reactions, and they usually do this to unwitting victims. That is all kinds of literal rape. And any vampire that has been around for over a couple years they will probably have killed people, even if unwillingly.

                          And besides Salubri and Children of Osiris all factions of vampires revolve around vampires coming first at the expense of human beings. The world is literally a worse place because of them being alive as they usually promote suffering. Mages are pretty neutral, tilting on at least wanting to be more good then bad. Changelings over all do more good then bad. Werewolves are the knives of the world.

                          And all the Shen of the Middle Kingdom don't like Cainites because they have no harmony with the World, that includes even many Asian Cainites as the Ravnos even recognize they screw with the wheel of reincarnation.

                          Just curious have you read any of the Werewolf Cores or only Vampire ones, this is not a swing against you but it would explain some things.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Lashet View Post

                            Yep. And that's could be easily avoided if there weren't that stupid trope.

                            Lets put it this way, why would anyone that isn't a vampire want vampires around? And if they did accept vampires existing they would only accept it if Vampires were under a strict code of conduct, which goes against the freedom and standard of living for all the sects.

                            By your reckoning is it bad that everyone wants to wipe out Fomori?


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                              You know when vampires drink blood they produce orgasmic reactions, and they usually do this to unwitting victims. That is all kinds of literal rape. And any vampire that has been around for over a couple years they will probably have killed people, even if unwillingly.

                              And besides Salubri and Children of Osiris all factions of vampires revolve around vampires coming first at the expense of human beings. The world is literally a worse place because of them being alive as they usually promote suffering. Mages are pretty neutral, tilting on at least wanting to be more good then bad. Changelings over all do more good then bad. Werewolves are the knives of the world.

                              And all the Shen of the Middle Kingdom don't like Cainites because they have no harmony with the World, that includes even many Asian Cainites as the Ravnos even recognize they screw with the wheel of reincarnation.

                              Just curious have you read any of the Werewolf Cores or only Vampire ones, this is not a swing against you but it would explain some things.
                              I did. All out hatred is the only WtA feature. Others just don't like them.

                              Speaking of vampire kiss... Pfaff. Garou literally eat people sometimes. So? Let people make some fun
                              Last edited by Lashet; 09-10-2019, 02:39 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lashet View Post

                                Yep. And that's could be easily avoided if there weren't that stupid trope.
                                Do you have a need to have garou and kindred/cainites ally in your games? Or is this just you wanting unity?

                                As for my point, it isn't about garou hating vampires, VtM is just a different beast from WtA.


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