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  • #91
    I am working on building a story and there's lot in here that is inspirational and may get yoinked into my chronicle. I have an issue with taking the text as gospel (which I know it isn't), so this thread has been one heck of a boon.

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    • #92
      Something I have kept poking at the past several years is that idea the Scottish Picts weren't the entirety of the White Howlers' human kin. Mostly just because I find it slightly odd that you have these great swaths of peoples/territories - Celts, Germanics, Semitics, Slavs, etc. - for most tribes, and then just this tiny little patch for the White Howlers. It's possible that the sunken region of Doggerland was once their territory. If so, they might've included the Maglemosian culture of Northern Europe and its successors the Kongomose and Tardenosian cultures, only to have them eventual pushed out and taken over by the advancing Fianna and Fenrir.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

      Comment


      • #93
        That would make sense to me aye. I've also always assumed that the pre-gaelic people's of Western Europe, Britons and so on, likely formed the foundation of the White Howler kinfolk protectorate alongside the Picts.

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        • #94
          I share some of your sentiments about the White Howlers. It was strange that they only resided in Scotland when every other tribe occupies far larger expanses of land. And that their totem (whether you think it is the lion or the extinct cave lion) was not indigenous to Scotland. Furthermore, Scotland itself was buried under glacial ice for much of history. I don't think the land could be inhabited until about 8000 BC or so, making it impossible for Scotland to be the original home of the White Howlers.

          As a result, I've concluded that Scotland was merely the last refuge of the White Howlers. That their lands once included much of Western Europe (and probably lots of other areas, but Western Europe was the center of their might), but that they slowly lost them to the other Garou tribes until Scotland was all that was once left.

          Their white fur hearkens to that of arctic wolves, much like the Silver Fangs, who formed in the early days when the Ice Age had not yet fully retreated. And like Falcon is considered to be a king of the birds, the Lion is thought of as the king of the beasts. So combining the two, I felt the White Howlers must be an ancient tribe, and one that had pretensions of royalty. (Though we need to remember that royalty, aka sacred kings, had a much different role than the one we associate today with the word "king". Their political authority was much less, and kings would be chosen as the most worthy among a caste of others, rather than being passed down by birthright.)

          I've constructed an alternate history of the White Howlers that fits my understanding of history while keeping the essentials known.

          For the Stone Age and some of the Bronze Age, the White Howlers were an important tribe. However, they had the misfortune to select as their totem Cave Lion. Cave Lion was a mighty totem animal and made the White Howlers strong, but the animal became extinct 13,000 years ago. Therefore even though the selection of their totem animal seemed to benefit the tribe, once the animal became extinct, their tribal totem became weak and as thousands of years went by, the tribal totem became even weaker, displaying less and less power to his children. As a result, the White Howlers became fanatically about the spirits of the dead in an attempt to strengthen their bonds to their totem and give him proper chiminage. That worked for a time period, but it put the tribe into dangerous territory and eventually they began dealing with more forbidden spirits of the dead.

          Worse, some of the most important tribal caerns were in areas that were land during the Ice Age, but were flooded by the ocean as the glaciers melted. This included the original caern dedicated to the Cave Lion from which the tribe sprung as well as some of their other powerful caerns. With their destruction, the White Howlers lost power. Nevertheless, for a long time the White Howlers persevered as a mighty tribe of Garou.

          That changed during the arrival of Neolithic farmers from the Near East and later the Indo-European speaking peoples from the steppe. With these people came the kinfolk of other tribes, and the result was the destruction of much of their human kinfolk, and the replacement by their rival tribes, especially the Fianna and Get of Fenris. The White Howlers collapsed in power, and with a few generations lost most of their numbers. As a result, the tribe retreated getting even smaller and less powerful every generation. Finally, all they had left was Scotland, and for several thousand years this once great tribe was confined to a small protectorate with very few numbers. By the time of the Roman Empire, the White Howlers were essentially an endangered species kept on a reservation or wilderness preserve created by the Fianna who felt pity for these once great kings with their dead totem.

          This eventually brings us to the history we know today which culminated with the attempted Roman conquest and their betrayal and destruction of their corrupted members of the Black Spiral Dancers.

          I think that preserves the known information and keeping its inspiration in Howardiana of Bran Mak Morn.

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          • #95
            One of the other things I've toyed with is the idea of the White Howlers having a certain amount of involvement with the Dark Umbra. Maybe not as much as the Silent Striders, but enough to make them come across as grim and creepy to the Fianna and Fenrir.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

            Comment


            • #96
              Depending on when you start the history of the Garou, the White Howlers could have been a mighty tribe with an active totem as cave lions prowled throughout the world. I start my World of Darkness history at the end of the Pleistocene/beginning of the Holocene around 10,000 or 12,000 BC. Cave lions went extinct around the same time. But even I'm able to give about a thousand years when the White Howlers were at full power. For those who push back the history of the Garou even further, they had even more thousands of years before the cave lion went extinct.

              They simply had no way of knowing they were making a bad bet. For all they could foresee the tribe seemed strong and would remain so. That their totem animal would become extinct and threaten their totem and thus the tribe's survival was impossible for them to conceive.

              Now other tribes have tribal totems that could be considered extinct. You don't see unicorns, griffins, and uktenas around. But these were either magical animals that managed to survive as bygones and thus retain power, or were always spirits for whom extinction is a meaningless concept. Not so with the cave lion. They were like mammoth except without Griffin to protect him. Cave Lion had to rely entirely on this only children left on the Realm - the White Howlers.

              And as much as the deep history of humanity is lost to us, any record of the White Howlers being powerful and rival kings to the Silver Fangs were also lost (and at a time when being a king was much less impressive than it has now). So much of that lore is simply lost. And if it is remembered through Ancestors, spirit quests, or dream omens, any "confusing" bits that contradict current mythology can easily be ignored as incorrect interpretation since such things often have baffling elements to them.

              The White Howlers lucked out that for thousands of years, the human population was low and remained hunter gatherers. So they didn't lose anything. But once farming started and populations boomed, they were going to be doomed. Other tribes could survive new kinfolk and Garou arriving because their totems were living and strong. But the White Howlers were weaker as much of Cave Lion's power was kept simply to stay active and not fall into slumber or perish entirely. The other tribes were simply too numerous and too powerful by this point. Many of their kinfolk and cubs may have simply defected at that point, happy to be part of stronger and more vital tribes like the Get of Fenris and Fianna than choose to continue the odd ways of the Howlers and their declining might.

              I don't think the White Howlers get mentioned when it comes time to talk about the Impergium or War of Rage, but they were around for both. I imagine they voted in favor of keeping the Impergium. And they might have lost many members fighting against the other Changing Breeds. Think about it - if you belonged to a tribe whose animal totem is extinct, and you learn that Gurahl could bring the dead back to life, but won't share that Gift with the Garou, what would you do?

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                One of the other things I've toyed with is the idea of the White Howlers having a certain amount of involvement with the Dark Umbra. Maybe not as much as the Silent Striders, but enough to make them come across as grim and creepy to the Fianna and Fenrir.

                The Dark Umbra makes sense. Even the second edition Player's Guide section on them notes that the Howlers courted spirits of the animal dead, were known for their spooky ways, and were considered strange. In so far as the Dark Umbra means the land of the dead for people, I don't think they have much interest at least not originally. But I do think they'd quest to find Cave Lion and in their experiments to do so, likely got involved with the underworld as they expanded their lore of the dead.

                Comment


                • #98
                  A bit of camp / subtribe-related headcanon, mostly tied to the Silver fangs

                  • The Get of Fenris camps do not call themselves by the names presented in the books (mostly). The tribe as a whole disdains camps as diversions from the true calling of the Garou, and so have demeaned them by saddling them with the names of Vanir and Aesir gods; beings that the tribe holds in derision. The exceptions are the Hand of Tyr, who have embraced the name as a symbol of Fenris' retribution against oathbreakers, and the Swords of Heimdall, who embrace it out of a combination of their own ignorance and the stuff about Heimdall beign described as the palest-skinned of the gods. Mjolnir's Thunder, if they could laugh, probably would; after all the whole point of mjolnir is that it comes back.

                  • The "Silver Spiral" is not just a catch-all for Wyrm-fallen Silver Fangs. It's certainly not just Black spiral Dancers who happen to have one been Silver Fangs, either. No, the Silver Spiral are still Silver Fangs, and are a true-breeding House (though they do recruit and adopt.) Their origins go back to the Impergium, when they formed out of Silver Fangs disgusted by the decision to end the Impergium. This led them down a fairly dark path to start with, though they still, to this day, insist that they are ultimately working in Gaia's interest. Their goal is to first and foremost, put humanity in its proper place... but also ultimately the Wyrm and its servants. and the proper place is, of course, kneeling at the feet of the Silver Fangs. In this endeavor, they work with the fallen of other tribes to try to form a "Dark Concordiat" - camps such as the Bringers of Eternal Peace, the Bitter hex, the Bitter Frost and Dying Cubs... all members of true tribes, who serve the Wyrm, and in part, serve the Silver Spiral...

                  • Another Silver Fang house is the Ice Pack, which is supposed to be extinct, or half-spirit. Neither is true. originally the Ice Pack were a House that kept the primal traditions of the Silver Fangs alive, preserving ties to lupus kinfolk and pre-industrial human kinfolk in Siberia alike. They didn't expect their own tribemates to turn on them though. Clan Crescent waged war against the Ice pack during the Russian expansion into Siberia, claiming caerns and fetishes by virtue of their "superior culture" - and letting their Russian kinfolk and allies slaughter wolves and indigenous Siberian kinfolk alike. In the aftermath, the surviving Ice Pack collectively and ritually turned its back on Falcon for the totem's refusal to intervene, and isolated itself to recover, securing what kinfolk it could and even bringing spirits into its bloodlines. meanwhile Clan Crescent spread stories that the Ice pack had "vanished" and oh, those werewolves living in Siberia, who are clearly related to the Silver Fangs but have "MoNgReL" bloodlines? Clearly those are just some bastard offspring of the Wendigo, let's call them "Siberakh"...

                  • A similar war spelled the end for Conquering Claw; Already on their last legs, the House decided to throw itself in deep with the Fourth Crusade and the Venetian sack of Constantinople, attempting to reclaim the former seat of their former empire from House Wise Heart. In the end neither House would succeed in holding the city; but Conquering Claw was laid waste by the Stronger, defending House. Several of the house's elders are now ghosts enslaved by the Giovanni of Venice. For debts accrued, of course!

                  • The waning fortunes of the Silver Fangs are because of the death of Conquering Claw, Winter Snow, the Ice Pack, Golden Sky, and the Unknown. if the Silver Fangs could ever resurrect and reunite their houses, the tribe's power would greatly increase, more cubs would be born, and they would be spiritually reinvigorated. The trick is of course, gaia herself is said to have punished Winter Snow. Nobody has a clue what happened to the Golden sky or the Unknown. Ice pack has spurned Falcon, and Conquering Claw's totem serves Hosue Wyrmfoe now.. .and then there's the matter of the Silver Spirals being a functional, legitimate (if exiled) house... But hey if you want a Renewalist-themed chronicle, there you go.

                  • The Wendigo are on the verge of a civil war. The Sacred hoop camp, long a prominent (ig not particualrly dominant) camp in the tribe has splintered. The Old Guard are seen as men and women who sell dreamcatchers and sage bundles for a few bucks and tell Raven stories to anyone who sits down at the casino bar. a younger, more revolutionary part of the camp wants to integrate non-indigenous peoples into the tribe to create a broader base of kinfolk centered aroudn a decolonization movement, similar to the Uktena (but angry.) But the big problem is that this schism and the factions vying for power has led to the exposure of the Secret Hoop - the clandestine sub-camp that works to manipulate the Ghost dance and Warpath camps against one another. This sort of subterfuge is bad enough, but the Secret hoop's apparent belief that the other Wendigo would turn to endeavors like nuclear annihilation is just insulting. Arguments over this have already come to blows in - and between - a few septs...

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by geeklord1 View Post
                    Some of my home brew setting changes are
                    • The Garou are a bit more united in the United States than other places in the world and most Septs are mixed tribe septs. The Storm Eater was the flash point that drove the Garou together and while many of their tribal grievances are still there they are more subtle and insidious in America than outright hostilities.
                    Personally, I would play it as the opposite, for meta reasons. At least with the "more united" part.

                    It's fairly safe to say most Werewolf games - as is the case with WoD in general - take place in the Americas. Demographics play a role in this, as does America so often being the default setting of much works of fiction, for good or ill.

                    It's my contention, simply from a game design/Storyteller standpoint that, all else being equal, more potential stories is better than fewer. Indeed, this has been my contention for years now.

                    As such, if a region is going to be the game's "default" milieu, you'd want it to be a place where there's LESS unity, not more. That way, there's a lot more drama, which leads to more chronicle-actionable conflict PCs can be run through. I'm not advocating for there to be no collaboration. Just that, if the choice is between all the Garou in a region being on the same page, and them being at odds over one thing or another, the latter is more useful as chronicle material.

                    Moreover, if there's a lack of unity in a setting, the PCs GET the opportunity to create it through their actions. Just as it's a waste for a tabletop game to establish an obvious antagonist figure and then kill them off as a background detail, thereby depriving players of the ability to kill them themselves, it's a wasted opportunity to make the work of unification and inter-tribe diplomacy be already done when the PCs arrive on the scene.

                    Yes, if your game isn't about bringing Garou together, you can dispense with the conflict and have them be more united. But I'd rather leave the option open where possible, all else being equal.

                    Note that I specifically limited this post until this point to the matter of American Garou being "more united". And not to them having more mixed septs. That part I DO agree with, for exactly the reason mentioned above. Having more mixed tribe septs creates that delicious tension, as the needs of all Garou and the sept itself run headlong against the needs of the tribe. Or where old animosities are allowed to either flare up or quietly fester. So having America be a place where it's more common to see inter-tribe mixing is a good thing, from the simple metric of "how many stories can this option open up".


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                      Personally, I would play it as the opposite, for meta reasons. At least with the "more united" part.

                      It's fairly safe to say most Werewolf games - as is the case with WoD in general - take place in the Americas. Demographics play a role in this, as does America so often being the default setting of much works of fiction, for good or ill.

                      It's my contention, simply from a game design/Storyteller standpoint that, all else being equal, more potential stories is better than fewer. Indeed, this has been my contention for years now.

                      As such, if a region is going to be the game's "default" milieu, you'd want it to be a place where there's LESS unity, not more. That way, there's a lot more drama, which leads to more chronicle-actionable conflict PCs can be run through. I'm not advocating for there to be no collaboration. Just that, if the choice is between all the Garou in a region being on the same page, and them being at odds over one thing or another, the latter is more useful as chronicle material.

                      Moreover, if there's a lack of unity in a setting, the PCs GET the opportunity to create it through their actions. Just as it's a waste for a tabletop game to establish an obvious antagonist figure and then kill them off as a background detail, thereby depriving players of the ability to kill them themselves, it's a wasted opportunity to make the work of unification and inter-tribe diplomacy be already done when the PCs arrive on the scene.

                      Yes, if your game isn't about bringing Garou together, you can dispense with the conflict and have them be more united. But I'd rather leave the option open where possible, all else being equal.

                      Note that I specifically limited this post until this point to the matter of American Garou being "more united". And not to them having more mixed septs. That part I DO agree with, for exactly the reason mentioned above. Having more mixed tribe septs creates that delicious tension, as the needs of all Garou and the sept itself run headlong against the needs of the tribe. Or where old animosities are allowed to either flare up or quietly fester. So having America be a place where it's more common to see inter-tribe mixing is a good thing, from the simple metric of "how many stories can this option open up".
                      I tend to play with new people where I do an extended prelude so they can go in with no real understanding or preconceived notions of the setting. Since the tribes are more likely to answer the call of new cubs (in an attempt to recruit them). So the Sept they start at or the Septs nearby are mixed allowing them to pick whatever tribe they want during this extended prelude where the players get to learn about the lore in and out of character at the same time.

                      I also think it's unlikely that the Garou wouldn't unify even a little bit because of a massive Wyrm beast destroying their Caerns and them unifying to drag it down. I think there's still plenty of tribal conflict even if the tribes are more unified simply because they were so comically at each other's throats it takes me out of the setting a bit.

                      Comment


                      • In my head, garou are a bit less globally organised as in revised or W20, but more locally oriented dealing with their own protectorate and their neighbour septs for the most part. Most septs are mono-tribal or bi-tribal - meaning they adhere to the tribal traditions of the one or two tribe(s) that make up the majority of the sept. While wandering packs on occasion bring news to the septs, they don't care too much about what happens somewhere else in the (western) world.

                        Comment


                        • The Delirium did not happen because the Impergium whas so horrible, no it whas because the Garou where made by Gaia. Because Gaia is a Pure One her creations are above the Paradox and because the masses could not anymore deny the existence of such supernatural creatures that have something against them and so instead they created the Delirium because then they do not have to acknowledge anymore, that there are some Awakened entities, that have something against humanity. The other reason why the changeing breeds can only be born but not made despite magick is because the Shapeshifters are Gaias kind of Awekened people. That is why being Garou and being Mage is incompatible, because Magi are Jahwe/Allahs kind of awakened goodly fire possessors while Changeing Breeds are the one of Gaiah. Being a Kinfolk means possesing one of Gaiahs Avatar though only Gaiah decides except for the Corax at their birth whose Avatar will one day awake. The only other way would be beside the skindancer ritual that a from Gaiah personally created child would be there because the childs power are that it can awake a kinfolk to be now another one of their changeing siblings.

                          Edit: Because I can write here too, how the Garou behave different here now our campaign hometake.

                          The Glass Walkers are more infamous but more efficient in our WoD because one their Elder and Leaders is not a Garou but a Kinfolk who is a Mage. James White is an Archmage of the Virtual Adept and 2020 turning hundred and because of his experience, his achievment and his background the VA and Glass Walker know much about each other and so are seing in each other competent allies. The VAs are more efficient in bringing in intel which made the GW work more as the Strike team taking out the corruption. With the GW less being in Office and more on the Street they have a much better releationship with the Bone Gnawers who are now way more willing to serve as scouts and bring information from streetsources.
                          With James still having been in the Technocracy back then as an unkowing Kinfolk he made a best friend with Joshua Black who helped him and his wife Ina in their resistance against the Nazis with rescuing fellow Jews. Joshua stayed at the Syndicate and whas later to make an aiding deal with him which he sold the board as with a little bit of giving the positions of Syndicate establishments and information about abusing deals they can redirect the Werwolfattacks from the City living ones to controlled targets that are abusing the masses and get the enemy to do all the dirty work for you so you do not have to use your people fighting Nephandi. With showing of at least 30% less Werwoulfattacks because the GW focus mostly on those that James found out as corrupted the Syndicate found the deal very profitable and the Garounation whete where impressed how efficient the GW become in fighting the Wyrm. Nowadays James tries as a Chaotian to find out next targets that improve the world with their disappearance while Ina is going as a Reality Coder to improve the aftermath.
                          Last edited by Koronus; 08-20-2020, 09:25 PM.


                          As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                          First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                          Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

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                          • Sorry to Thread Necromancer but there was more to add and I figured it would be more useful as a resource and efficient to add my ideas onto this then create a new thread. Besides I’m the OP so I have some right to this at least.

                            So, this is a post about the tribe of Australian Garou and my take on them:

                            •The Bunyip

                            I’m not satisfied with the Bunyip. I say that both generally and specifically as a tribe of Garou. I have a number of reasons for it but they can be boiled down to these two things: the ‘Bunyip’ of Aborigine Australian culture is not what is presented in WtA so I’m wary about the use of that name & the ‘Bunyip’ as were-thylacines (which I’ll now be referring to them as) does not make sense because despite being called “Tasmanian Wolves”, thylacines are not wolves or canids at all, they’re marsupials.

                            Coyotes are more closely related to Wolves then Thylacines are and yet the Nuwishu are a distinct breed while the were-thylacines are a lost tribe of Garou? That just doesn’t feel right to me. So, here’s what I do instead.

                            The were-thylacines or ‘Story Keepers’ (working title) were a changing breed native to Oceania that played a role similar to that of the Ajaba, Bastet, and Garou. Where these breeds appeared they became Gaia’s warriors and guardians and such was the case for the Story Keepers. While the Garou served across Eurasia, the Ajaba in Africa, and Bastet across nearly every other continent. Every other continent, aside from Oceania, which would become the territory of the Story Keepers to protect and maintain the health of.

                            The Story Keepers, like the Ajaba and Bastet, were not just Garou with funny pelts though. They had a unique duty, a duty carried in their title. They were the keepers of song and story. They made it their duty to produce the songs of history with every generation and to record every song that had come before them. They created an unbroken chain of singing, ancestor to ancestor, which carried the great song of life from the first Story Keeper to the last. They shared this duty with their human kinfolk and they all gained great pride and honor for the accuracy and power of their stories.

                            The Story Keepers served Mother Earth, Rainbow Serpent, and Thylacine dutifully all their history. Yet this was doomed to a tragic conclusion. As had happened in the Americas, the Wyrmcomers came to Oceania and they brought disease, war, and famine with them.

                            The last songs of the Story Keepers were ones of tragedy and calamity. They had hoped that these songs would stand as testaments to teach the Changing Breeds when the battle was over, but they would not see this day. They were hunted to the ends of their land by wyrmbringers and wyrmcomers in the War of Tears. They sang their last and were slain as the last thylacines were slain.

                            Only when the damage was done did the Garou realize the gravity of their mistake, when they learned how the Wyrm had deceived them and made them arrogant, how the songs of the Story Keepers had held secrets that may have forestalled the Apocalypse. In their grief, the Garou called the Story Keepers brother and mourned them like kin. They hoped that doing thus would lead them against this kind of failure in the future and time will tell. Regardless this is how the Story Keepers became honorary Garou post-humously.

                            Now the Garou Nation rules in Oceania and the Western Concordiat particularly. The other Changing Breeds find their niches while trying to preserve a land they do not understand. They know that the land’s true kin are lost. Yet at night, they hear singing. Songs of a mournful land, glutted on blood and grief. Songs of rage and vengeance also howl from the not-empty night.

                            Sometimes Garou vanish in the outback. Sometimes they go into the umbra to never return. Sometimes remains are found, sometimes not. Older Brother tries to reconstruct the Story Keeper’s song from the tales of their kin, the Children of Gaia try to save their lost ‘brothers’ land, the Glass Walkers hope to resurrect the Story Keepers, and the Red Talons serve a penance as guardians of the thylacine’s country.

                            Gaia knows if this will be enough. The Garou of Oceania pray that they have not lost their final opportunity to defeat the Wyrm. They pray that all is lost.

                            They pray the final song is not a requiem for them...

                            Comment


                            • I can't believe I did not comment on the Bunyip earlier on this thread. Probably because they are a past element of the setting, and thus not relevant to me in terms of setting creation. My ideas are not very different from Gryffon15's, but not as detailed or developed.

                              I must admit while I don't have a problem with were-thylacines, I have never considered them to be Garou. This is something for which I immediately created headcanon. Bunyip existed to fulfill the role of the Garou in Australia (which obviously did not have wolves). But they were never actually Garou. They were just another breed of Fera. However, after killing them, the Garou regretted their actions so much that the Garou Nation, in a grand concolation, "adopted" the Bunyip as honorary Garou. Perhaps as an attempt to appease their spirits (which obviously failed).

                              I kept the name Bunyip because that is what was used in the books for this. However, the Bunyip legend (some kind of dangerous or evil water creature) doesn't seem to fit were-thylacines. But maybe the confusion is a result of the Delerium and the Bunyip's Crinos form. This was a problem in first edition which had the Bunyip's tribal totem be Rainbow Serpent. But W20s change to the tribe having Bunyip as their tribal totem, just places them in same role as Uktena or Wendigo as being named after their totem spirit.

                              Of course, as a Fera, the Bunyip wouldn't have a tribal totem - which is something only Garou have. So I'd probably rule Bunyip was something they were called by the Garou based on names humans gave them as a result of the Delerium. But if they had some kind of official name, I'd likely pick some variant of what the Australian Aborigines actually called the thylacines (and since they spoke multiple languages, I'd just pick one of them), or maybe just change the name to Yowie (or some other variant like Yaroma, but probably not the Yahoo). However, unless my players complained, I'd truly just keep calling them Bunyip.

                              I wonder if the Aborigines ever had real legends about were-thylacines? Many cultures had legends about people able to turn into the most dangerous local animal. But I don't recall ever reading anything like that.

                              = = = =
                              Going back to Rage Across Australia, despite loving Mamu the Red Talon with all my heart (he looks so adorable), I just can't accept the existence of were-dingoes. It's awesome in a gonzo way, but it leads to all sorts of bad ideas (which we see as Red Talons continue to become other creatures even more distant from wolves like African painted/wild dogs). So I don't have were-dingoes in my setting. But Mamu still exists as the leader of a particularly nasty anruth pack of Red Talons (the sole one in Australia) who, thanks to a fetish, leave tracks like they were dingoes and might even appear like them to a special Gift (that other Garou in Australia may have as well) similar to Blur of the Milky Eye. I hope Mamu forgives me.

                              Comment


                              • I did some looking but I wasn’t able to find much about Aborigine Australian culture or beliefs aside from very broad strokes stuff, but I’d welcome any resources that people were aware of. I did also consider the Yahoo as an alternative but I didn’t think it quite fit either, so I went for a title name for lack of any better idea.

                                As far as Red Talons and stuff like the Smiling Dogs and Dingoes I’m also constantly considering that without any strong sensation about how I want to lean. On one hand it works with the part of me that expands the Ratkin to other rodent species (though eventually Rat claimed dominance over the breed) to explain their widespread presence but on the other hand I wonder if they should be kind of like the were-thylacines or Nuwishu (or the Ajaba and the Bastet or the Mokolé and Nagah) that they are distinct species that the Garou adopted because it looked “close enough” or that they really are branches.

                                Then it ties into the dog question and I agree that letting Garou breed with dogs is too far and too silly, thought perhaps high wolf percentage mixes could get away with it. I dunno, lots to consider here.

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