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  • SavageGM
    started a topic Books made “obsolete” by other books.

    Books made “obsolete” by other books.

    I’m trying to go back and get some older werewolf books and was wondering what books you feel are not needed as long as you have another book (W20 books?). I know probably having most of them is still useful, I’m just trying to minimize purchases if possible. I’m not sure to what extent the core W20 book covers some aspects of older books adequately. Thanks for any help.

  • Saint Michael
    replied
    Blook of the Wyrm first edition is the only one with BSD Renown categories. 2nd ed. explains what happens if you pass the Sixth Circle of the Shattered Labyrinth. Also, Ronin Dancers. MET has extra totems and Wyrm rites.

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  • Saint Michael
    replied
    Freak Legion is more playful. I like it for some reason. I prefer *Kinfolk Unsung Heroes* to *A Breed Apart.* Fera and Kinfolk relations have mostly better info than the former -- except for Mokole. Still like the previous book more.

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  • Nail Eater
    replied
    I think that in any book you can find something interesting and which you can't find in other books. For example in Freak Legion are a few companies which creates fomori but weren't put in the later books.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Players Guide to the Garou and Storytellers handbook revised are just good books in general, and have over all helpful advice. Getting Werewolf 20 and Changing Breed Twenty you are pretty all set with just those two.

    Get either Revised Umbra or the w20 one, Hammer and Klaive, Book of Auspices, Book of the City and Possessed and you are pretty set. The Hengeyokai is a good addition since they had to abbreviate some of it for the Changing20 book, and Silver Fangs tribebook explains all their houses. The other Tribebooks aren't absolutely necessary, but they are fun, and some open up options like the Get book opens up their unique Norse dialect of the Garou Tongue. But Werewolf 20 does a great job of stealing the most fun bits from a lot of those books, like they take a rite from the Wendigo and a rite from the Get book and their iconic Fetishes. But off the top of my head only the Fangs really have that subsystem of houses that you need the book to flesh out.
    Broken Pedestal Dissent: I would say to get Freak Legion over Possessed, as well as giving any other of McFarland's books a miss. His status as author of Black Furies Revised hits with a particularly bitter note of irony.

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  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    I havent read a book that i feel completely invalidates another, though i cant say i have read every book. all books of the wyrm for instance have interesting sections the others don't and interesting contradictions to them.

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  • The Cat Came Back
    replied
    Werewolf didnt really have any books made "obsolete," with two exceptions (more later)

    Generally new books simply expanded on old ones, corrected a few places, and were largely redundant. The 1st and 2nd Edition Players Guides are both fully functional and compatible, save for the things the 2nd edition specifically changes.

    Sometimes the overhaul can be so extreme that it feels like the older book is obsolete; several tribebooks have this going on, where the "vision" of the tribe changed a lot between 1st, 2nd, and revised. The Black Furies, Bone Gnawers, Get of Fenris, Silent Striders, and Stargazers got hefry upgrades in their Tribebooks (while the Children of Gaia and Red Talons kinda got downgrades)

    The two obsolete books are Book of the Wyrm 1st editon, and Freak Legion. BotW1 used a lot of concepts that would be recycled, but it was also full of garbage that has since been dumped (fertile spiral metis!) While still usable, technically, the 2nd edition and W20 version simply blow it oit of the water.

    As for Freak Legion, it was straight-up anulled and replaced by Possessed. While still useful for the mindset and such of fomori, its just dead material
    Last edited by The Cat Came Back; 06-11-2020, 04:02 PM.

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  • Darko
    replied
    If you want some extra material, I would highly recommend Rage Across the World. Definitely worth it in my opinion.

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  • SavageGM
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Players Guide to the Garou and Storytellers handbook revised are just good books in general, and have over all helpful advice. Getting Werewolf 20 and Changing Breed Twenty you are pretty all set with just those two.

    Get either Revised Umbra or the w20 one, Hammer and Klaive, Book of Auspices, Book of the City and Possessed and you are pretty set. The Hengeyokai is a good addition since they had to abbreviate some of it for the Changing20 book, and Silver Fangs tribebook explains all their houses. The other Tribebooks aren't absolutely necessary, but they are fun, and some open up options like the Get book opens up their unique Norse dialect of the Garou Tongue. But Werewolf 20 does a great job of stealing the most fun bits from a lot of those books, like they take a rite from the Wendigo and a rite from the Get book and their iconic Fetishes. But off the top of my head only the Fangs really have that subsystem of houses that you need the book to flesh out.
    excellent info thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Players Guide to the Garou and Storytellers handbook revised are just good books in general, and have over all helpful advice. Getting Werewolf 20 and Changing Breed Twenty you are pretty all set with just those two.

    Get either Revised Umbra or the w20 one, Hammer and Klaive, Book of Auspices, Book of the City and Possessed and you are pretty set. The Hengeyokai is a good addition since they had to abbreviate some of it for the Changing20 book, and Silver Fangs tribebook explains all their houses. The other Tribebooks aren't absolutely necessary, but they are fun, and some open up options like the Get book opens up their unique Norse dialect of the Garou Tongue. But Werewolf 20 does a great job of stealing the most fun bits from a lot of those books, like they take a rite from the Wendigo and a rite from the Get book and their iconic Fetishes. But off the top of my head only the Fangs really have that subsystem of houses that you need the book to flesh out.

    Leave a comment:


  • SavageGM
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

    Yes they are very useful still, I probably read the Players Guide to the Garou the most of all my Whitewolf Books.

    Revised Era Werewolf should hold up and be useful, and really the only book made obsolete by W20 would be Changing Breed 20 surpassing the Revised Players Guide to the Changing Breeds. Some books like say Umbra Revised I would say I even prefer to the W20 counterpart. Even 2nd edition is still useful, like Rage Across the Heavens could fit into revised Era. 1st edition is dated but you can still extract fun ideas from say Rage Across the Amazon and Rage Across Russia is still useful for its stats on Baba Yaga and the Zmei, and for a glimps at the old early 90s Russia. I never read Rage Across Australia but I hear it didn't age well. I go generally with the Revised Tribebooks over the older ones, but I hear Children of Gaia Revised was really bad so maybe defer to the first one there. But the Changing Breeds books are still useful today because they have more room to explore their breeds compared to say Changing Breed 20th ann edition which is still great but one book can't detail as well as a dozen.
    excellent thanks for the help!

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by SavageGM View Post

    Thanks for the info that helps. Do you think the Players Guide to Garou and the Book of Auspices is useful with W20?
    Yes they are very useful still, I probably read the Players Guide to the Garou the most of all my Whitewolf Books.

    Revised Era Werewolf should hold up and be useful, and really the only book made obsolete by W20 would be Changing Breed 20 surpassing the Revised Players Guide to the Changing Breeds. Some books like say Umbra Revised I would say I even prefer to the W20 counterpart. Even 2nd edition is still useful, like Rage Across the Heavens could fit into revised Era. 1st edition is dated but you can still extract fun ideas from say Rage Across the Amazon and Rage Across Russia is still useful for its stats on Baba Yaga and the Zmei, and for a glimps at the old early 90s Russia. I never read Rage Across Australia but I hear it didn't age well. I go generally with the Revised Tribebooks over the older ones, but I hear Children of Gaia Revised was really bad so maybe defer to the first one there. But the Changing Breeds books are still useful today because they have more room to explore their breeds compared to say Changing Breed 20th ann edition which is still great but one book can't detail as well as a dozen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rock113
    replied
    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    Though there is the caveat that it is almost 20 years old by this point, so some stuff may not reflect whatever WW20 presents as the current setting.
    You do remind me one thing: Even the latest ToJ series are almost 16 years old by this point. The 20th anniversary are also 8-9 years old, too (remember the original WoD “only” lasted 13 years...)

    And I have played this game for almost 5 years and I still thought that’s not long ago...
    Last edited by Rock113; 03-29-2020, 03:57 AM.

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  • No One of Consequence
    replied
    Like I said, I'm not all that well read up on the WW20 material, but just from personal experience, I found a lot of useful information and ideas in the Players Guide to the Garou. Though there is the caveat that it is almost 20 years old by this point, so some stuff may not reflect whatever WW20 presents as the current setting.
    Book of Auspices is, strangely, one of the handful of original White Wolf era Werewolf books I don't own (I tried to pick up a used copy from Amazon a few years ago and received a "like new" copy that looked like it had been chewed on by a large dog and then left out in the rain before being run over several times by a car), so I can't really offer an opinion.

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  • SavageGM
    replied
    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    Nothing is really obsolete, per-say. I'm not all that caught up on what all WW20 has done, but my general advice in these sort of situations is to start with the more recent 20th anniversary edition material, and then once you've digested that, start looking at which Revised or 2nd ed era books cover the sort of stuff you're most interested in or which focus on stuff you haven't seen in the WW20 material.
    If you have, say, WW20 Rage Across the World, then you may not need the revised era World or Rage or the various Rage Across setting books unless there's a geographic setting you're particularly interested in exploring more. Likewise, if you have the WW20 Book of the Wyrm, then you probably don't need to put a high priority on the first or second editions of that book. And with WW20 Changing Breeds, the revised edition Guide to the Changing Breeds would probably be less necessary, but if you really want to investigate a specific breed, then you've still got the Breed books to check out (with the revised era Guide being an update to most of those).
    Thanks for the info that helps. Do you think the Players Guide to Garou and the Book of Auspices is useful with W20?

    Leave a comment:

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