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Can humans learn to side-step?

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  • Can humans learn to side-step?

    Can regular people learn to side-step? Maybe from Spirits or learning from ancient tomb of somesort? Also obviously Awakened are not inferenced here since I already know they can side-step with enough Spirit Sphere.


    Jade Kingdom Warrior

  • #2
    RAW, barring certain paths of Sorcery/Hedge Magic, humans are not able to piece the Gauntlet or interact with the Umbra of their own volition.

    However I do think it would be interesting if there were some ways in which they could.

    Places where the Gauntlet is particularly thin or weak might work as ways to enter perhaps, whether that's an ancient grove or a catacomb leading to the underworld.

    I would also let people of strident enough belief and some form of shamanic/druidic aptitude or training to attempt to slip through the Gauntlet in places where it is particularly weak.

    By and large though, the spiritual world is a matter for the changing breeds, as much of humanity had forfeit their birthright to it in the modern world.

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    • #3
      No. It's limited to beings who are partially made out of ephemera (spirit matter). Besides the Changing Breeds, that's some Fomori with the appropriate powers, and certain other supernatural creatures.

      If people can somehow astral project (by whatever means - mastery of the Ephemera Sorcerer Path is one of them), then their astral body could eventually enter the Middle Umbra. But their physical bodies always stay on this side of the Gauntlet.

      I also want to add that I believe if ordinary people do somehow physically enter the Umbra (like being pulled through by the gift Grasp from Beyond), then their physical matter will eventually convert into ephemera and with enough time they'll never be able to leave. I'm pretty sure that's the case though I don't know where that's written down.
      Last edited by Black Fox; 04-04-2020, 11:07 PM.

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      • #4
        What about fusing with a Spirit into one entity like usual? Is it possible to be fused with a "neutral" Umbral Spirit? (That is a spirt not associated with the Weaver, Wyrm, or Wyld)


        Jade Kingdom Warrior

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        • #5
          There are Kami which exist but they are exceedingly rare and imbued by Gaia with a specific purpose so aside from an ST plot or some other sort of spiritual possession, there's not much of a chance for it.

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          • #6
            Id find it disappointing if humans COULD learn to do so

            I LIKE The fact that when a a Garou is spying on the SAD From the Umbra hes doing so in total anonymity.

            And they have no way to retaliate.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gryffon15 View Post
              There are Kami which exist but they are exceedingly rare and imbued by Gaia with a specific purpose so aside from an ST plot or some other sort of spiritual possession, there's not much of a chance for it.

              I meant like a Spirit from the Umbra with no affiliation with any of the Triat or Gaia. I've read W:TA books before and I distinctly remember neutral spirits that had no real "faction" so to speak- just regular Umbrood. Can neutral spirits fuse with humans?


              Jade Kingdom Warrior

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              • #8
                There aren't really neutral spirits, even if there are more factions than the primary WtA ones. Generally speaking, for reasons (generally OK ones) spirits of other types are too disconnected from normal reality to bond with humans like Fomori/Gorgons/Drones/Kami do. Dark Umbra ghosts can possess people, or more easily bodies, but their nature makes it impossible to form permanent bonds. High Umbrood of the Astral and the Deep Ones beyond (though plenty are aligned with the prominent factions) are generally too "big" for a single human to handle a spiritual fusion with. These are being closer to Incarnae/Celestine in power, and exist far from Earth metaphysically.
                Last edited by Heavy Arms; 04-05-2020, 05:12 PM.

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                • #9
                  Technically, ghosts can permanently possess corpses; they're called the Risen. But they're the exception, and just about the limit of what ghosts can do in that respect. More importantly, it won't give you a mortal who can Step Sideways.


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                  • #10
                    Eh.. I don't really consider Wraiths to be Umbrood despite that, yes, they are technically apart of the "Dark Umbra". Also a Wraith becoming Risen isn't even the same at all as a Spirit fusion since the body their entering is lifeless and has no other occupant. Also Wraith's aren't limited at all when it comes to possession. A master of Puppetry with all dots trained up can literally destroy your soul and steal your body for itself.


                    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                    • #11
                      I suppose a regular person could stumble across a shallowing on their own and exit the merged area on the umbral side rather than the spiritual. Those are extremely rare in the modern world, though, and it wouldn't so much be them doing something as being in the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                        I suppose a regular person could stumble across a shallowing on their own and exit the merged area on the umbral side rather than the spiritual.
                        I am not familiar with the term Shallowing although I can guess what it must mean from the context. Is this an actual game term? In what book is the concept mentioned?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                          I am not familiar with the term Shallowing although I can guess what it must mean from the context. Is this an actual game term? In what book is the concept mentioned?
                          It's an Ascension thing, mainly Revised and M20. Shallowings are times and places where the Gauntlet's non-existent, where one can simply walk from the material realm into the Otherworlds and vice versa. Best source for me is Infinite Tapestry, pp. 19-20.
                          Last edited by marin; 04-09-2020, 03:20 PM.


                          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                          • #14
                            Shallowing is a Mage term for when the Gauntlet is lower or even non-existent without it being a constant effect of something like a Caern.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks. I didn't know there was a term for that. I incorporate the idea that the Gauntlet does indeed fluctuate at liminal times and places. So that if a Garou attempts to sidestep during dusk/twilight, or at liminal places (like a cave entrance o lake/seashore), or during the change of seasons that the difficulty decreases slightly. So the idea that the Gauntlet might briefly temporarily disappear completely at certain places is an extension of that. I'll be adopting that term then in my chronicles.

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