Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Garou Control over Kinfolk - a discussion (warning: triggering subject matter)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I recommend everyone pick up a copy of Monty Cook's CONSENT IN GAMING for a recommended read. It's only a dozen pages but well worth it.

    https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...sent-in-Gaming
    This is also a free PDF, so you can avoid harming the players at your table with triggering topics without a financial cost to you or them. I had all my Mage players go through it and filled out what I was comfortable with as a Storyteller so they knew that certain topics were off the table and which ones I was going to focus on in the game.

    When filling out the Consent in Gaming PDF, be aware that you can add things later if you find them to be triggering or uncomfortable. That being said, if someone at your table is uncomfortable, please stop and make sure the game doesn't harm them.

    The World of Darkness games are fun--when we go to the levels and types of darkness we want.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      snip
      Anyway, I like the breakdown you have there. How do you think that should be divided by Tribe. Some are obvious, with Glass Walker kinfolk living largely in the human world. Others are less obvious or more varied.

      i suspect that some of the more isolated communities could be targeted by the authorities, especially authorities that could be influenced or even just tipped off by influential Wyrm servants. “Hey, are these kids enrolled in school? Are those buildings up to code? Do you have permits for those guns/animals/etc.?”

      Comment


      • #78
        The Monty Cook book is a good thing to signal boost, 100% we folks should check it out.

        To Sergeant Brother's point though, yeah, I think the Garou Nation is great in that way to illustrate both how shadowy it can be and the world can be, because you've got really two branches here.

        Either the world doesn't notice, which has a dark ambience all its own. It's the gothic feeling of neglect, that certain people have been abandoned by society and the status quo, left to fend for themselves and to develop their own insular subcultures. It's also the punkish-ness of struggling to shout out and rouse the apathy surrounding you, something that the Garou Nation particularly struggles with when it, particularly its kinfolk, attempt to spread their message.

        Then you have the other side of the coin which is an analysis of how screwed up and dysfunctional elements of the Garou Nation are when you consider how they would interact with the contemporary west. Sure, we all know that garou are an isolationist theocratic semi-primitivist warrior culture. But it hits different when you've got CPS examing your kin's records. When a garou is pulled over and is incapable of producing legitimate identification, because he doesn't legally exist. When you have to hide your ritual practices not only to avoid the servants of the Wyrm; but ordinary curiosity, moral authorities, and religious groups.

        Nothing makes you realize quite how strange your circumstances have become like finding that you can no longer rely upon something that you would ordinarily take for granted.

        Comment


        • #79
          In a game im running the First Returnefd Camazotz in ages Has a shadow lord host who Manages his kinfolk with a "Spare the rod spoil the child" Attitude forcing his daughter into a boarding school to keep her safe from Frenzys.

          And hes about to have his maid replaced and he did his best to find the old one a good husband.

          The new one is still learning the rules of her position.


          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
            Anyway, I like the breakdown you have there. How do you think that should be divided by Tribe. Some are obvious, with Glass Walker kinfolk living largely in the human world. Others are less obvious or more varied.
            I think all tribes can could find communities in all categories though some are more natural than others. Glass Walkers and urban Bone Gnawers would almost always have their kinfolk surrounded by humans. But there are certain things you can do to make your communities more secretive. I think one reason the Glass Walkers had the Wise Guys camp is not only is it a means for power, that the secretive nature of the criminal subcommunity would make it easier to be openly Garou within it while shielding it from outsiders. I think other secretive subcommunities would also serve the same purpose - fraternal organizations, certain kinds of ethnic minority neighborhoods, radical political groups, controversial organizations - anything that would deter most people from socializing with members, but allow them to occupy a certain amount of physical space. Mundane humanity would thus see their separation from the rest of the city as "normal" because that would be expected for that groups. That could lead to an isolated community (kinfolk oasis) in the middle of mundane humanity.

            I find Silver Fangs interesting because I think they occupy both extremes a lot. They have members that bred with human nobility, and thus have members well connected to humanity. But I also imagine they have small isolated communities in the swamps and forests of Siberia or what have you that still represent Garou nobility (and high pure breed), but never interbred with human nobility.

            i suspect that some of the more isolated communities could be targeted by the authorities, especially authorities that could be influenced or even just tipped off by influential Wyrm servants. “Hey, are these kids enrolled in school? Are those buildings up to code? Do you have permits for those guns/animals/etc.?”
            I suspect the smaller communities are so remote that most government bureaucrats never touch them. What local enforcement there is usually comes from institutions the kinfolk themselves have people in power like the County Sheriff. Agents of the Wyrm could go after them, assuming they identify them, but it'd truly be a waste of most resources in most cases. The big exception is when great amounts of money could be made from nearby natural resources extraction. Once enough money is at stake, the wheels will get greased.

            But like all things, one can imagine a lot of different scenarios.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
              In a game im running the First Returnefd Camazotz in ages Has a shadow lord host who Manages his kinfolk with a "Spare the rod spoil the child" Attitude forcing his daughter into a boarding school to keep her safe from Frenzys.
              I think institutions like boarding schools, orphanages, fraternal orders, charitable foundations, religious orders, local heritage or genealogical groups, and certain hobby organizations would be used by kinfok a lot. Anything that can be used to segregate people, create strong ties among participants, and exclude others (non-kinfolk) from their activities yet appear normal to outsiders would prove very useful.

              Comment


              • #82
                On to the next category of control - the Extended Family/Large Neighborhood category.

                If immediate family meant control like a strict parent in a traditional society, then I think this one is like the family patriarch or matriarch. A grandparent with influence over their own adult children and also their grandchildren and maybe more. Another example might be the influence of a trusted religious leader in their congregation - someone who could secure the blessings of the spirits or Gaia for their extended family. This would also be the equivalent of high amounts of the Kinfolk background which give 20 or 50 kinfolk over to the PC to control. (Again, certain benefits may need to have Allies, Contacts, or Resources background mechanically than just the Kinfolk background, but everything would be tied to it being Kinfolk that is the origin of that.)

                I think defining the scope is easy. Detailing the amount of control is a bit harder. While not having the direct authority of a parent over his children, I do think this amounts to "a head of the family".

                I think in terms of finances and requesting resources and service, the Garou is about the same as immediate family, but perhaps being less burdensome and more indirect. Instead of taking direct control of resources, the Garou would inform this extended the group of the amount of resources needed, and it'd be up to the group to figure it out for themselves and pony it up. They'd distribute the burden as fairly as they could and then turn it over. So the end result is the same, but it seems a little less oppressive.

                In terms of controlling marriage or mating of kinfolk in this group, I think it'd be more of a veto over anything she'd find objectionable. Perhaps done in a way that the expectation is that the kinfolk obtain "her blessing", but if that is not provided then it simply isn't done and the community is ready to ostracize the objecting kinfolk. If the Garou actually wants to pair someone in this group as a mate to some other kinfolk or Garou, it is probably done via social pressure instead of just arranging it herself. The Garou may be thwarted her, but a highly skilled social Garou can probably make it happen. At this group, relations are distant enough it may be possible for a Garou to seek her own mate from the group. As long as the consanguinity is accepted by the Garou's tribe or sept, I think it would hold. Obviously this is more acceptable in some tribes more than others. I don't think Garou could override any objection other Garou in their tribe have at that in principle. But if the tribe overall is acceptable of that, then it happens.

                Because we're still in the mechanics of Backgrounds zone, I think a lot of the control is the same. But how it is exercised is different, and the more important for Garou to have higher social skills than relying just on the authority of their position.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Black Fox View Post

                  I think all tribes can could find communities in all categories though some are more natural than others. Glass Walkers and urban Bone Gnawers would almost always have their kinfolk surrounded by humans. But there are certain things you can do to make your communities more secretive. I think one reason the Glass Walkers had the Wise Guys camp is not only is it a means for power, that the secretive nature of the criminal subcommunity would make it easier to be openly Garou within it while shielding it from outsiders. I think other secretive subcommunities would also serve the same purpose - fraternal organizations, certain kinds of ethnic minority neighborhoods, radical political groups, controversial organizations - anything that would deter most people from socializing with members, but allow them to occupy a certain amount of physical space. Mundane humanity would thus see their separation from the rest of the city as "normal" because that would be expected for that groups. That could lead to an isolated community (kinfolk oasis) in the middle of mundane humanity.

                  I find Silver Fangs interesting because I think they occupy both extremes a lot. They have members that bred with human nobility, and thus have members well connected to humanity. But I also imagine they have small isolated communities in the swamps and forests of Siberia or what have you that still represent Garou nobility (and high pure breed), but never interbred with human nobility.

                  I suspect the smaller communities are so remote that most government bureaucrats never touch them. What local enforcement there is usually comes from institutions the kinfolk themselves have people in power like the County Sheriff. Agents of the Wyrm could go after them, assuming they identify them, but it'd truly be a waste of most resources in most cases. The big exception is when great amounts of money could be made from nearby natural resources extraction. Once enough money is at stake, the wheels will get greased.

                  But like all things, one can imagine a lot of different scenarios.
                  Garou with access to lots of money, either from businesses for modern Garou or noble families for the more old fashioned, could find ways to make communities which were both ideologically pure and yet not underprivileged. For example, kinfolk boarding schools and summer camps for Silver Fang or Shadow Lord (just two examples) kinfolk. They could be raised in a way to protect them from dangerous elements of modern society, but also given important knowledge about the modern world and put in a situation to make good connections later on. That is the best of both worlds in a way.

                  As for human authorities, I think it’s a good tactic for Pentex, for example, because it’s relatively low risk and low cost and would cause the kinfolk a huge headache on the tax payer’s dime. If you have some Pentex executive with access to a politician or news network, it would be extremely easy to create a storm of negative attention for some isolated kinfolk community. Think of the news headlines - extremist cult compound found in the woods. They don’t educate their children. They are child molesters. They are Neo-Nazis, Satanists, or some other very unpopular and feared ideology. They are amassing guns. They are terrorists. The list could go on. The kinfolk community might not be anything close to any of that, or maybe the reports can take a few quirks of the community and exaggerate them, but it doesn’t actually matter. I could easily see it turning into a Waco situation even without Pentex pulling any strings to encourage persecution.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
                    As for human authorities, I think it’s a good tactic for Pentex, for example, because it’s relatively low risk and low cost and would cause the kinfolk a huge headache on the tax payer’s dime. If you have some Pentex executive with access to a politician or news network, it would be extremely easy to create a storm of negative attention for some isolated kinfolk community. Think of the news headlines - extremist cult compound found in the woods. They don’t educate their children. They are child molesters. They are Neo-Nazis, Satanists, or some other very unpopular and feared ideology. They are amassing guns. They are terrorists. The list could go on. The kinfolk community might not be anything close to any of that, or maybe the reports can take a few quirks of the community and exaggerate them, but it doesn’t actually matter. I could easily see it turning into a Waco situation even without Pentex pulling any strings to encourage persecution.
                    The other part of this is that the kinfolk community will have a sept and caern of some sort attached/linked to it. Thus going after the kinfolk may force the garou to brake cover to protect them, and thus expose them selves as targets. Also thinking longer term - take out the kinfolk community, and in a generation the septwill be a lot weaker - due to no new garou been born - and the caern will be an available target to take out.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Agree with Sergeant Brother. Defo boarding schools and summer camps, especially for Silver Fangs, Fianna and possibly Shadow Lords. I could also see a (fictional) school like Andover or Exeter being used by multiple tribes or possibly even the entire Nation.


                      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Consent In Gaming is great!!! Especially the Checklist 😊😊😊.


                        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          how much influence would Persuasion pluss a good Social pool give parents over their children on things like


                          'Enter this Career'

                          'Marry this person'

                          'dont leave town'


                          Comment


                          • #88
                            None, if their children are PCs.

                            We’re talking about Garou influence over Kinfolk, but I guess an attempt by a Garou parent to convince her NPC Kinfolk child to do or not do something would be resolved by a Social dice roll.


                            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              a kinfolk boarding school sounds like a target.


                              Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                                a kinfolk boarding school sounds like a target.
                                Anywhere that kinfolk or Garou are concentrated is a target, but a boarding school or something similar has advantages. One thing is that it is respectable. The FBI aren’t going to raid a boarding school, or if they do it’s going to require a lot more use of political clout to get them to do it. A boarding school can have security and in fact is a good central location that can be guarded by Garou or spirits. If the boarding school gets attacked, the attackers will be investigated by the police, not the boarding school itself. The staff can keep a close eye on the kid’s to notice a first change and minimize the associated risks.

                                It’s likely safer than an off the grid compound, maybe even more secret than one too. It’s also probably safer than just letting kinfolk kids live integrated with normal human kids.

                                I can see it now - Professor Albrecht’s School for Gifted Youngsters.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X