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Is dancing the Spiral a must for corrupted werewolves?

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  • Is dancing the Spiral a must for corrupted werewolves?

    Hi.

    I know normally wyrm-serving werewolves are presented as BSD's. My question is...is this a must? Is it possible to serve the wyrm without dancing the spiral; something similar to a corrupt Ronin?

    I ran into this because I have 2 NPCs who are fallen werewolves. Looking at the BSDs gifts and the depiction of the tribe, I can't really see them being part of them ...

  • The Cat Came Back
    replied
    You can still force someone onto the Labyrinth, BUT, they'll just die unless they accept the Wyrm's embrace on it.
    If a Garou just just running around doing whatever it wants, and not fighting for gaia - or actively fighting against the Gaian Garou, as can often be the case for the ronin - then they're already doing the Wyrm's work by the Spiral's estimation, and like MyWifeIsScarry said, an unknowing but living servant of the Wyrm is more useful than a knowing but dead one.

    This is also one of the reasons the Spirals let the Skin Dancers do their thing without trying to recruit htem (The other reason being, of course, self-preservation; the Skin Dancer cult would probably end up being a real hassle if it took hold among Spiral kin, after all)

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  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    It's not a literal portal. You dance a physical spiral, whilst your mind and soul partly enter the labarinth. You're in two places at once, essentially, I think. You might blink in an out between the two places if I recall. You need to dance in the drawn spiral willingly to advance down the spiral in the labarynth, and vice versa. The BSD around you can only really watch you do this, since they can only interfere with one side. The could literally skip the spiral ritual and drag you to the labyrinth, but I don't think they could hold their shit together to take you far enough in and get your soul warped.
    That would go together with what Arkady is expierencing in the Black Spiral Dancer tribe novel. I never found it described like that in a source book, though. But I never searched for it, either.

    As far as forcing someone goes, I guess the sick mided BSD would have ways to torture you and tear down you resolve and will until you comply.

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  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    I think in 1st edition you could chuck someone down, in later editions you've gotta be willing, to keep in line with nephandic cauls and infernal pacts. I could be wrong there on the precise details, but I think that's the gist of it.

    It's not a literal portal. You dance a physical spiral, whilst your mind and soul partly enter the labarinth. You're in two places at once, essentially, I think. You might blink in an out between the two places if I recall. You need to dance in the drawn spiral willingly to advance down the spiral in the labarynth, and vice versa. The BSD around you can only really watch you do this, since they can only interfere with one side. The could literally skip the spiral ritual and drag you to the labyrinth, but I don't think they could hold their shit together to take you far enough in and get your soul warped.

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  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    I believe you can't force someone down the spiral, they have to go willingly.
    Doesn't the Rite kinda open a portal to the outermost layer of the Labyrinth. One could, literally, force someone, through that. And, sure, dying is a possibility, but completing the circle is gaining understanding in the ways of the Wyrm and that is for the most path the end.. of sanity.

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  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    I believe you can't force someone down the spiral, they have to go willingly. Though they may be a little nuts, there's usually one voice of reason in the pack who'll point ou that a corrupted ronin is more useful than someone that died after refusing an ultimaem.

    I think of spirals as broadly belonging to two schools.

    1- The "if it's fun" camp. Mostly homids and high functioning spirals who live in relatively habitable hives and who spend their days doing what they want (fornicating, watching TV, chatting with spirits, raking in big money, whatever) that don't actively try to further the wyrm's cause, though they may do so for fun.

    2-low functioning, mostly metis, fanatics. They are bred, poisoned, abused and indoctrinated in large numbers and are sent through the spiral without fail. Someone with brains will send them onto missions. The "if it's fun" camp might breed and control these fanatics. Their lives are usually short, sad affairs as they're rarely a match for Gaia's warriors and typically they rely on numbers.

    The second camp, if they catch a ronin, will probably be stupid enough to try force a corrupted wolf through the spiral. That Ronin will likely become a star among them.

    It hasn't been mentioned yet, but the gender of the ronin matters. I don't think I need to or should elaborate. Capturing an unwilling male is pointless, a non-metis woman is an excellent resource either way.

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  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by The Cat Came Back View Post
    In fact the Spirals will NOT force wyrn-tainted Garou down the Spiral. It's actually against their version of the Litany which, to paraphrase, demands they not antagonize other servants of the Wyrm. Besides; the tainted Garou will probably come their way eventually ANYWAY. The tribe actually has scads of "ronin," not Garou who have left the tribe, but Spiral-born Garou who haven't joined, for... whatever reasons (usually because they don't meet the Spirals' standards, which says a lot about the sort of garou we're looking at.)
    Depends on what is a "servant" of the Wyrm. A fallen garou might be totally making use of wyrmish practices and further the Wyrm accordingly. But, he is serving his own interests first. As do some BSD, but in any case, a local BSD leader might give the order to bring such a fallen garou into the fold. Persuading or tricking him to do wyrmish deeds, not for his gain, but for their own benefit.

    I totally depends what twisted believe the local BSD follow, when deciding if they are going to approach a fallen garou, or not yet fallen Ronin.

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  • The Cat Came Back
    replied
    In fact the Spirals will NOT force wyrn-tainted Garou down the Spiral. It's actually against their version of the Litany which, to paraphrase, demands they not antagonize other servants of the Wyrm. Besides; the tainted Garou will probably come their way eventually ANYWAY. The tribe actually has scads of "ronin," not Garou who have left the tribe, but Spiral-born Garou who haven't joined, for... whatever reasons (usually because they don't meet the Spirals' standards, which says a lot about the sort of garou we're looking at.)

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  • Ana Mizuki
    replied
    If using 20th edition Wyrm book rules, the Spiral is the end-point for corruption. The point of no return. Before that, the garou could still turn around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Argonot
    replied
    Excellent. Thanks for your answers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Dwight View Post
    You can be a wyrm tainted garou and not danced the spiral. However you can't be a black spiral dancer without having danced the spiral.
    Pretty much this, after the Black Spirals formed as a tribe they seemed to also try to monopolize Wyrm Tainted Garou, but they can certainly exist without being a Dancer. The First Ronin for instance is a Wyrm Tainted Immortal and is well a Ronin.

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  • Gryffon15
    replied
    Yeah, one needn't go through the actual ritual of Dancing The Spiral although once a garou has become wyrm-tainted, corrupt, or else wise accepted the gifts of banes or other servants of the Mad Wyrm; some might say that such a garou has begun to dance the spiral in their heart.

    So a bane-haunted lone wolf garou might not be a member of the Black Spiral Dancer tribe, but in the eyes of both the BSD and the Gaian Nation, the garou has begun to dance the spiral in spirit.

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  • Black Fox
    replied
    It is not a must. However, once identified as fallen Garou, I can see the Black Spiral Dancers making contact and first offering them to do so, or forcing them to do so.

    Depending on the nature of these fallen Garou and how many allies they can summon, those Garou may or may not have a real chance to avoid that by fending off the Dancers.

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  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    Not at all. many werewolves, especially ronin, are corrupt. Banes will give tainted gifts out relatively easily.

    however, if you start hanging with spirals, they may just drag you to dance.

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  • Dwight
    replied
    You can be a wyrm tainted garou and not danced the spiral. However you can't be a black spiral dancer without having danced the spiral.

    Leave a comment:

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