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Garou v kindred alliance

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  • #61
    With random monsters (no.2) and combat in general, if things don't look like they'll go the garou's way, they'll turn tail and run. If you get into a duel over the many, many things garou disagree about, nobody's running.


    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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    • #62
      That sounds... wasteful.

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      • #63
        The garou are wasteful.

        sometime during the early modern era, some militaries had to ban dueling between officers because they were killing too many capable leaders. It posed a notable problem.

        Garou will never ban duels.


        Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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        • #64
          Hm. Incorporating the worst of human and wolf, eh? In any case, it's one reason why all-out war with vampires isn't a good idea. The leeches spend much of their time messing with each other as it is.

          Garou/Kindred negotiations must be weird. In a stable city, it's entirely possible a sept'll end up talking to the same damn vampire even centuries later.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
            Garou will never ban duels.
            Iirc, some septs did.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              The garou are wasteful.

              sometime during the early modern era, some militaries had to ban dueling between officers because they were killing too many capable leaders. It posed a notable problem.

              Garou will never ban duels.

              No, they banned duels because Duels were.. illegal. Now there were periods where dueling was politely ignored but personal dueling has generally been illegal(not to be confused with Judicial combat which is much closer to what garou have). But its generally never been particularly legal to kill another person outside state sponsorship.

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              • #67
                The editions and books are all over the place on duels to the death. I covered some of this in a thread where I talked about the changes in Klaives between editions. First edition stated that klaive duels always ended in deaths, and that this was a common problem. By revised, dueling to the death was heavily frowned upon, it wasn't necessary to win a klaive duel by killing your opponent, and the Master of Challenge and other elder types tried very much to sabotage, thwart, and delay any duels to the death.

                And that's just talking about klaives. I assume there are many other duel challenges that don't use them, but the same mentality towards klaive dueling should apply in other circumstances.

                So like many things, this depends on the individual ST and what they like to see in their chronicles.

                After a certain point, a discussion concerning "canon" inevitably throws up a variety of contradictory information. Sometimes it is just due to carelessness that the writer and editor didn't bother to check prior sources. But other times it was deliberately done because the new developer and/or writer decided to negate what was previously established (sometimes for good reason, sometimes for bad, often simply due to personal preference).

                But this is really taking this thread off topic.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post


                  No, they banned duels because Duels were.. illegal. Now there were periods where dueling was politely ignored but personal dueling has generally been illegal(not to be confused with Judicial combat which is much closer to what garou have). But its generally never been particularly legal to kill another person outside state sponsorship.
                  I’m pretty sure I also read about dueling getting banned because politicians and military leaders were offing themselves too much. It led to too much of a power vacuum in the middle ranks.

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                  • #69
                    I’m definitely adding these many societal flaws to make the garou more interesting and flavorful.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
                      I’m pretty sure I also read about dueling getting banned because politicians and military leaders were offing themselves too much. It led to too much of a power vacuum in the middle ranks.
                      That might be true for some eras and countries but anti duelling legislation is dating back to a papal bull in 1213 AD according to wikipedia.
                      And the reasons might start with "Thou shall not kill" and go all the way to the social problems created for family and subjects, when the a nobleperson suddenly dies because of an probably irrational need to defend his honor. I mean it's not that they needed to get their affairs in order and grant power of attorney to someone who than can rule over their household and domain, if they die.

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                      • #71
                        That’s the Fourth Council of Lateran ruling.

                        Nobody gave a shit about those laws and continued it till the 20th century, even during the civil war.

                        That gives me an idea about a story arc for a colonial period vampire who has anachronism...

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
                          Nobody gave a shit about those laws and continued it till the 20th century, even during the civil war.
                          I'd believe that some people still duelled, often out of a (mistaken) sense of chivalrous virtues. Others didn't. But those who were against those duels surely were aware of any legislation against duelling and if they were able to do so might have imposed fines on those who duelled, if legally possible.

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