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Garou v kindred alliance

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  • Pnizzle
    started a topic Garou v kindred alliance

    Garou v kindred alliance

    I’m running some ‘neutral’ garou faction in a city for a VtM game.

    The vampire PCs are in a troublesome truce with them.

    One player is entirely specialized and appears as human.

    I RPed the garou as treating the ‘human’ as a mind slave (knowing vampires have some kind of mental control, but being young aren’t certain exactly).

    Is it realistic for them to liberate the ‘human’ or would it have been better to get rid of or ignore them?

    I have some ideas already for their reasoning behind accepting a truce but I’ll keep it secret in case the players find this post.

  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
    Nobody gave a shit about those laws and continued it till the 20th century, even during the civil war.
    I'd believe that some people still duelled, often out of a (mistaken) sense of chivalrous virtues. Others didn't. But those who were against those duels surely were aware of any legislation against duelling and if they were able to do so might have imposed fines on those who duelled, if legally possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pnizzle
    replied
    That’s the Fourth Council of Lateran ruling.

    Nobody gave a shit about those laws and continued it till the 20th century, even during the civil war.

    That gives me an idea about a story arc for a colonial period vampire who has anachronism...

    Leave a comment:


  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
    I’m pretty sure I also read about dueling getting banned because politicians and military leaders were offing themselves too much. It led to too much of a power vacuum in the middle ranks.
    That might be true for some eras and countries but anti duelling legislation is dating back to a papal bull in 1213 AD according to wikipedia.
    And the reasons might start with "Thou shall not kill" and go all the way to the social problems created for family and subjects, when the a nobleperson suddenly dies because of an probably irrational need to defend his honor. I mean it's not that they needed to get their affairs in order and grant power of attorney to someone who than can rule over their household and domain, if they die.

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  • Pnizzle
    replied
    I’m definitely adding these many societal flaws to make the garou more interesting and flavorful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pnizzle
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post


    No, they banned duels because Duels were.. illegal. Now there were periods where dueling was politely ignored but personal dueling has generally been illegal(not to be confused with Judicial combat which is much closer to what garou have). But its generally never been particularly legal to kill another person outside state sponsorship.
    I’m pretty sure I also read about dueling getting banned because politicians and military leaders were offing themselves too much. It led to too much of a power vacuum in the middle ranks.

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  • Black Fox
    replied
    The editions and books are all over the place on duels to the death. I covered some of this in a thread where I talked about the changes in Klaives between editions. First edition stated that klaive duels always ended in deaths, and that this was a common problem. By revised, dueling to the death was heavily frowned upon, it wasn't necessary to win a klaive duel by killing your opponent, and the Master of Challenge and other elder types tried very much to sabotage, thwart, and delay any duels to the death.

    And that's just talking about klaives. I assume there are many other duel challenges that don't use them, but the same mentality towards klaive dueling should apply in other circumstances.

    So like many things, this depends on the individual ST and what they like to see in their chronicles.

    After a certain point, a discussion concerning "canon" inevitably throws up a variety of contradictory information. Sometimes it is just due to carelessness that the writer and editor didn't bother to check prior sources. But other times it was deliberately done because the new developer and/or writer decided to negate what was previously established (sometimes for good reason, sometimes for bad, often simply due to personal preference).

    But this is really taking this thread off topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    The garou are wasteful.

    sometime during the early modern era, some militaries had to ban dueling between officers because they were killing too many capable leaders. It posed a notable problem.

    Garou will never ban duels.

    No, they banned duels because Duels were.. illegal. Now there were periods where dueling was politely ignored but personal dueling has generally been illegal(not to be confused with Judicial combat which is much closer to what garou have). But its generally never been particularly legal to kill another person outside state sponsorship.

    Leave a comment:


  • heinrich
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    Garou will never ban duels.
    Iirc, some septs did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konigheim Horror
    replied
    Hm. Incorporating the worst of human and wolf, eh? In any case, it's one reason why all-out war with vampires isn't a good idea. The leeches spend much of their time messing with each other as it is.

    Garou/Kindred negotiations must be weird. In a stable city, it's entirely possible a sept'll end up talking to the same damn vampire even centuries later.

    Leave a comment:


  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    The garou are wasteful.

    sometime during the early modern era, some militaries had to ban dueling between officers because they were killing too many capable leaders. It posed a notable problem.

    Garou will never ban duels.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konigheim Horror
    replied
    That sounds... wasteful.

    Leave a comment:


  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    With random monsters (no.2) and combat in general, if things don't look like they'll go the garou's way, they'll turn tail and run. If you get into a duel over the many, many things garou disagree about, nobody's running.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konigheim Horror
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    I feel like the number one or two cause of death for werewolves is -other werewolves- and I don't mean spirals, and that's the ideal for drama

    Rough order of leading causes of Garou death:

    1-Sanctioned violence (duels and punishment rites)
    2-Spirits and umbral accidents
    3-Hail of silver bullets (mundane or near-mundane shooters)
    4-Suicide (not by duel or punishment rite)
    5 Black spirals
    6-Unsanctioned Garou violence (Murder, tribal conflict)
    7 Formor
    8-Fera
    9-Rites of passage
    10-natural causes
    11-Vampires
    12-mundane accidents
    How d'you come to these numbers? Specifically, number one? From the things I did read, the impression I got was the leading causes for Garou death were Random Monsters, followed by Spirals, folllowed by everything else. Are their rites really that lethal?

    Leave a comment:


  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    So a thing with vampires that was vividly described in midnight seige:

    Vampires benefit greatly from society going to shit. On the casual level:
    corruption makes things easier to work with for vampires
    poverty provides rich feeding grounds
    marginalized groups don't speak up much
    distrust in police, law and politics makes it easier for vampires to get away with abusing their herds.
    crumbling infrastructure (faulty street lights) make it easier to hunt (also vampires want tax cuts so there's that)
    rampant drug use adds spice to the blood supply.
    Vampires try to increase urbanization so that there are more vessels moving in their domains and the dreaded lupine countryside is pushed further back.

    on the 'next level' stuff
    -elders influence zoning laws and building design to build higher so that there is more shadow to hide beneath in the day.
    -elders want an increase in sunlight obscuring smog for the 'just-in-case' day scenario. Also maybe they want warmer nights.

    I mean, those things could also be explained away ad just symptoms of vampires being elite capitalists.

    But also vampires literally steal from people to live and frequently rack up body counts so... hating them isn't unreasonable.

    Leave a comment:

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