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WtA - Earthblood: Gameplay article

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  • WtA - Earthblood: Gameplay article

    So, I found this article about the upcoming Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Earthblood game.

    https://www.cbr.com/werewolf-the-apo...play-analysis/

    I must admit I wasn't really interessed until now but from the description it sounds like the game might be better than expected. Seems like tyhey scrapped the Glabro and Hispo forms though and while I get those might not be "different enough" to warrant inclusion I still feel like they could have helped underline how different WtA is from the usual werewolf fiction.

  • #2
    There's a mention of two "stances" used in combat, but I don't know what that means. My literal interpretation is that they're ways to position your legs and arms. Maybe one is on all fours, analagous to Hispo? But in frenzy the PC will be in both stances simultaneously, IIRC.


    I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
    Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

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    • #3
      Live play footage is out. Such a baby crinos form

      https://youtu.be/28HvGmg-Jqg


      You've been playing around the magic that is black
      But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dwight View Post
        Live play footage is out. Such a baby crinos form

        https://youtu.be/28HvGmg-Jqg
        Omg, its so tiny. I guess they did not want to make combat look AS unbalanced as it does on TT.


        My gallery.

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        • #5
          pretty sure the war form just looks little cause of the camera. You can tell that it is a few feet taller then the humans.

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          • #6
            Yeah, the proportions of Crinos look fine at the scale of the camera.

            What bothers me more is the shifting. It looks more like druid rapid spellcasting than a werewolf shifting forms. I get not wanting to have to spend a few seconds (even 2 every time can drag in video games) on changing animations, but a little flourish of energy and instant homid to lupus or back feels very off.

            Something more visceral is sorely lacking. It also could have added some tactical depth if it was harder to shift without breaking stealth.

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            • #7
              Vials that increase Rage?

              I'm with Heavy Arms on the optics of the shifting process.

              But, from what the trailer showed it is an action game for the most past, so there is a huge amount of killing guards, fomori and so on, but really not a lot of other WtA specific elements.
              Gifts?

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              • #8
                Damn, this game looks MUCH more better and finished than Bloodlines 2. If only it were for PC.

                Also I agree the size is a little iffy, but as Heavy Arms and Up-to-Eleven mentions it could just be camera perspective. I do hope that the size gets increased by a few increments, but that seems unlikely. Also the changing does seem fast, but don't you just need Rage to turn instantly? Also Shifting from a tabletop standpoint itself only needs Stamina + Primal-Urge itself right? A Turn in the Storyteller system (besides if you're doing an action that spans multiple turns) is about 3 to 5 seconds right?

                The Shifting in this game actually looks accurate to me. Its just that the size seems off.


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                • #9
                  If you look at it, human guards are coming up to the Crinos form's shoulders. That's pretty much on point size-wise. The Crinos form can pick up a lab-coat wearing guy, drag them around, and toss them without it looking unreasonable.

                  The speed of shifting isn't really the main issue. In the TT rules you can spend 1 rage to reflexively shift, or roll as an instant action to do it in a few seconds (though it takes more than one success), and shifting to your Breed form is already reflexive. There's a Merit that lets you shift to any form reflexively.

                  The thing is, regardless of speed, Garou in the TT rules have to shift through all their forms. When you shift from Homid to Lupus, you have to transition through Glabro, Crinos, and Hispo on the way. This means shifting while stealthy is difficult because for a brief moment, you're a giant man-wolf-monster. Shifting in enclosed spaces is also impossible without causing a ruckus and/or scenery destruction. It's also a physical process so bones move around, flesh grows and shrink, etc.

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                  • #10
                    Vials that replenish Rage aren't conceptually terrible, it's just that they would be talens in the TT game. This is starting to sound like it is to W:tA as Mechassault is to BattleTech.

                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    If you look at it, human guards are coming up to the Crinos form's shoulders. That's pretty much on point size-wise. The Crinos form can pick up a lab-coat wearing guy, drag them around, and toss them without it looking unreasonable.

                    The speed of shifting isn't really the main issue. In the TT rules you can spend 1 rage to reflexively shift, or roll as an instant action to do it in a few seconds (though it takes more than one success), and shifting to your Breed form is already reflexive. There's a Merit that lets you shift to any form reflexively.

                    The thing is, regardless of speed, Garou in the TT rules have to shift through all their forms. When you shift from Homid to Lupus, you have to transition through Glabro, Crinos, and Hispo on the way. This means shifting while stealthy is difficult because for a brief moment, you're a giant man-wolf-monster. Shifting in enclosed spaces is also impossible without causing a ruckus and/or scenery destruction. It's also a physical process so bones move around, flesh grows and shrink, etc.
                    Given the height boost of Crinos and this height comparison tool for art, they should be coming up to about the MC's midsection, not his shoulders.

                    When you roll, you can bypass forms. Five successes gets you across the spectrum in one turn, which is likely not going to register to human saccades; you'd have to break down individual frames of animation to catch it. This is somewhat supported by the books, as one of the slang terms for werewolves and presumably other werebeasts that Imbued use is flickers, because they can abruptly change into a different form without the human eye registering what happened in between. Slow shifting is for the newly-changed, and if the MC passed that threshold a long time ago, it's going to be on the easier side to elide the other forms. That said, I would go for understated special effects, not glowing energy. Briefly shading and then re-illuminating, at the most.

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                    • #11
                      Yeah I remember from a panel in an old "World of Darkness: Combat" book, there was a page where a Garou was hit with a bat in human form by some gangster. Then he instantly changed right before the gangster's eyes.

                      Also newly-changed having trouble changing instantly makes sense, because Tabletop wise either their Stamina or Primal-Urge stats would be low. More advanced or experienced Shape-Changers would be much more faster and change instantly.
                      Last edited by Shakanaka; 12-15-2020, 02:08 AM.


                      Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                      • #12
                        Wait, is it not going to be on PC at all? Like, I know that vid said PS4/5 gameplay, but I had hoped that the game would also be on PC...

                        Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                        Vials that increase Rage?
                        We have those irl, it's called booze.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                          Given the height boost of Crinos and this height comparison tool for art, they should be coming up to about the MC's midsection, not his shoulders.
                          If he was standing perfectly upright? OK (though Crinos shapes and Homid shapes aren't the same). But since he's generally slouching as Crinos is usually drawn with how top heavy they are, that easily accounts for the difference.

                          When you roll, you can bypass forms.
                          You don't bypass forms, you just get through them faster. Maybe fast enough someone doesn't notice, maybe not. The point is that the TT game presents this as a physical rearrangement, not a poof of magic, and that things like running around in Lupus to get up behind someone and then shifting to Homid to stealth kill them, and then shifting back to Lupus, should have a risk of someone noticing (or not rolling well that time).

                          Edit:

                          Also consider that even with 10 dice and a specialty, you'd fail to shift fully from Homid to lupus in one roll ~1/4 of the of time and end up in Hispo for a moment. There's no evidence of that kind of risk.
                          Last edited by Heavy Arms; 12-14-2020, 10:02 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                            If he was standing perfectly upright? OK (though Crinos shapes and Homid shapes aren't the same). But since he's generally slouching as Crinos is usually drawn with how top heavy they are, that easily accounts for the difference.
                            What human accordingly stands fully upright when confronted with the Delirium? They should rightly be shifting about on their feet, nervous as shit at a bare minimum (sometimes literally), and cowering on the verge of running the hell away.

                            You don't bypass forms, you just get through them faster.
                            Potato, potɐto.

                            Maybe fast enough someone doesn't notice, maybe not. The point is that the TT game presents this as a physical rearrangement, not a poof of magic, and that things like running around in Lupus to get up behind someone and then shifting to Homid to stealth kill them, and then shifting back to Lupus, should have a risk of someone noticing (or not rolling well that time).
                            Yeah, I'm with you on not liking the poof.

                            Also consider that even with 10 dice and a specialty, you'd fail to shift fully from Homid to lupus in one roll ~1/4 of the of time and end up in Hispo for a moment. There's no evidence of that kind of risk.
                            Shapeshifting might have been a bit too fraught in TT for its own good. Also, if he's Fianna, he might have a Gift to help, since in W20, they get that as in-tribe (and that it exists at all is probably an indicator that someone else thought that shapeshifting might have needed a shot in the arm, too). Failing that, there's the Metamorph merit. Or there could have been assumptions from the official GURPS conversion from way back when (which I only mention because it was technically official).
                            Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 12-15-2020, 01:26 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I mean, I am glad that the crinos has a tail, has fur, is actually generally accessible and that lupus form wasn't forgotten.

                              It is still an action game, there are certain things that will have to go to make the game work for non-WtA players.


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