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Garou vs Ancestor Spirit?

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  • Rock113
    started a topic Garou vs Ancestor Spirit?

    Garou vs Ancestor Spirit?

    ASAIK there are no detailed rules about how to channel Garou into Ancestor Spirit, transforming specific Gifts into Charms, etc. Do they become greater after the death?

    I have looked through the several resources I know, Cores, Axis Mundi, Rage Across Australia and Under a Blood Red Moon

    Charms of spirits seem to be less versatile than Gifts, but their Gnosis, Rage and Willpower is used as Attributes, which maybe greater?

  • Rock113
    replied
    I always think they're much like Heroic Spirits in Fate Stay Night

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  • Gangrel44
    replied
    I've always looked at Ancestor Spirits as a sort of spiritual version of a Jedi/Sith Holocron. To use a quote from CoD's Werewolf: The Forsaken, this sums up Ancestor Spirits nicely: "Ancestor-spirits are not ghosts or the souls of dead people returning to the world of the living. An ancestor-spirit is a spiritual
    amalgamation of an entire bloodline, the wisdom and personalities of generations given a single spiritual form."

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  • Black Fox
    replied
    The game has always maintained that it is not certain what Ancestor Spirits truly are. They may be the spirits/souls of dead Garou. Or they may be spirits that take the form of deceased Garou. Or they might be ephmera of the umbral tribal homelands that take the form of deceased Garou. Or they may be something else. So any definitive statement is a ruling of the individual ST in her own chronicles.

    In the few examples we have of Ancestor Spirits as actual spirits, as opposed to the benefits of the Ancestors background, we're shown that mechanically they are the same as other spirits - only having Gnosis, Willpower, and Rage, and having Charms (not Gifts). So they are not duplicates of whatever the Garou was like when alive. The game has no problem creating new Charms if it wants spirits to have new powers though, so there shouldn't be any problem if you do the same if you want new Charms that duplicate the powers of certain Gifts the Garou had. But personally I would keep Charms to a reasonable level and only use those Charms that support the general theme of what that ancestor spirit means in Garou culture, as opposed to creating a Garou NPC.

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  • heinrich
    replied
    Ancestor spirit aren't necessarily dead garou.

    There are Tribe, Breed and auspice ancestor spirits. Just like a rage spirit is associated to Rage an ancestor spirit is associated to, for example, the homid breed. So, the ancestor spirit might appear as a dead garou of some renown, and possibly appear to have adequate knowledge of the life of the person they appear as.

    As such, ancestor spirits have traits adequate to their powerlevel (jackling, usually) and charms and gift lore adequate to what is suitable for a spirit representing the homid breed.

    ----

    There are garou who disconnect from the material world and become wholly spirit. Such NPCs exist in the books and they are, iirc, named ancestor spirits. But they aren't the normal kind of ancestor spirits.

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