Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chances of W5 being Forsaken Reskinned?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Asmodai View Post

    I'd love to hear where that information is from?
    The Book of the Wyrm regarding Formori. Frenzies are stated as things that come from the Beast of War with both vampires and werewolves. I admit it's been a long while but I always liked that Garou lie to themselves about their Rage's origins.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      The Book of the Wyrm regarding Formori. Frenzies are stated as things that come from the Beast of War with both vampires and werewolves. I admit it's been a long while but I always liked that Garou lie to themselves about their Rage's origins.
      That was always a thoroughly unnecessary part of post-1e. All other actions are punished by their consequences... but all Rage is from the Mega-Evil Universe Twister, so go get fucked if you frenzy, and forget any signs of the Phoenix, you're tainted inherently.
      Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 07-21-2021, 07:11 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

        That was always a thoroughly unnecessary part of post-1e. All other actions are punished by their consequences... but all Rage is from the Mega-Evil Universe Twister, so go get fucked if you frenzy, and forget any signs of the Phoenix, you're tainted inherently.
        I mean, that increases the depth of the Garou's struggle considerably. I mean, the entire theme of the game is the Garou's murder-hoboery isn't helping matters.

        But they can't stop.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          I mean, that increases the depth of the Garou's struggle considerably. I mean, the entire theme of the game is the Garou's murder-hoboery isn't helping matters.

          But they can't stop.
          Just having Rage does that. Having Rage be a manifestation of the Wyrm tips the scales into being too much like Vampire, with its concerns over inherent taint and having to cling to humanity for it, and the metis TotW effect... yeah. that was never a good idea.

          Comment


          • As per W20, the Garou have different ideas of where Rage comes from and it’s not set in stone:

            ” To the Garou, Rage is both a blessing and a curse. Many think that Luna gave Rage to the Garou through her moon-signs that determine how much Rage a Garou begins his life with after the First Change. Others contend that Rage is a spark of the Wyrm within each Garou, the force of primal destruction corrupting the children of the creator. The most vocal say that it is Gaia herself who would have her children use her Rage as their greatest weapon.”


            Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

            Comment


            • Thanks, Bunyip!

              I'm not as aware of Werewolf lore as I am other lines so I was worried I'd forgotten that or misremembered facts!


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                Thanks, Bunyip!

                I'm not as aware of Werewolf lore as I am other lines so I was worried I'd forgotten that or misremembered facts!
                No problem. I’ve recently had cause to deep dive back into W20 lore! 😉


                Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                  Just having Rage does that. Having Rage be a manifestation of the Wyrm tips the scales into being too much like Vampire, with its concerns over inherent taint and having to cling to humanity for it, and the metis TotW effect... yeah. that was never a good idea.
                  Eh, I've always felt that the game had all the horror elements of vampires but the werewolves were in far more denial about just how screwed up they were.

                  But I admit, I know some players HATE this idea.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                  Comment



                  • Originally posted by Bunyip View Post
                    As per W20, the Garou have different ideas of where Rage comes from and it’s not set in stone:
                    Hrm. I must have missed that, was it ever a idea before W20?



                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    Just having Rage does that. Having Rage be a manifestation of the Wyrm tips the scales into being too much like Vampire, with its concerns over inherent taint and having to cling to humanity for it, and the metis TotW effect... yeah. that was never a good idea.
                    Agreed.


                    What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Asmodai View Post
                      Hrm. I must have missed that, was it ever a idea before W20?
                      Well I thought it was established beforehand and haven't read W20 yet.

                      I should note that Rage has caused the Impergium, the War of Rage, an inability to work with humans against the Wyrm, an inability to find peace with each other, and virtually every other problem of the Garou.

                      Pretty shitty gift.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Asmodai View Post
                        Hrm. I must have missed that, was it ever a idea before W20?
                        I’m not sure which part you’re asking. Was it an idea about being from the Wyrm before W20, or that Garou had different theories?


                        Writer. Developer. World of Darkness | Chronicles of Darkness | The Trinity Continuum

                        Comment


                        • NB: in the 1e core, Thrall of the Wyrm didn't exist as a term or concept, but downing an enemy during a frenzy could result in what became the Homid TotW effect happening.

                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Well I thought it was established beforehand and haven't read W20 yet.

                          I should note that Rage has caused the Impergium, the War of Rage, an inability to work with humans against the Wyrm, an inability to find peace with each other, and virtually every other problem of the Garou.

                          Pretty shitty gift.
                          Pretty sure that Rage wasn't the inciting reason behind any of those, even the Wars that are named after them. The books have painted a picture of Garou being prideful and self-important, and having really, really shitty attitudes all around. You can't blame that on Rage; it'd be missing out on all of the other faults of the Garou and Fera, and besides, the game rules also say that without Rage, shapeshifting doesn't happen for the vast majority of characters. Kind of hard to play the game to theme, then.

                          And before you mention it, the Garou and Fera's mere existence isn't supposed to be a curse, either. That is, again, well-trod Vampire territory that said game has pretty much cornered beyond all others. Lopsided, to be sure, but it's a bit late to complain about that now.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                            Pretty sure that Rage wasn't the inciting reason behind any of those, even the Wars that are named after them. The books have painted a picture of Garou being prideful and self-important, and having really, really shitty attitudes all around. You can't blame that on Rage; it'd be missing out on all of the other faults of the Garou and Fera, and besides, the game rules also say that without Rage, shapeshifting doesn't happen for the vast majority of characters. Kind of hard to play the game to theme, then.

                            And before you mention it, the Garou and Fera's mere existence isn't supposed to be a curse, either. That is, again, well-trod Vampire territory that said game has pretty much cornered beyond all others. Lopsided, to be sure, but it's a bit late to complain about that now.
                            The thing is that Rage is a constant in Garou lives, affecting all their relationships and driving them to violence at all times. They may be "gifted" but their gift comes with a horrific cost that a lot of players ignore even though it would be nightmarish to live through.

                            A constant bubbling berserker rage and urge to murder anyone who ticks you off.

                            Sure, you can play the Garou as a good life but it's a pretty miserable one if you don't want to kill everyone who irritates you.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                              The thing is that Rage is a constant in Garou lives, affecting all their relationships and driving them to violence at all times. They may be "gifted" but their gift comes with a horrific cost that a lot of players ignore even though it would be nightmarish to live through.

                              A constant bubbling berserker rage and urge to murder anyone who ticks you off.

                              Sure, you can play the Garou as a good life but it's a pretty miserable one if you don't want to kill everyone who irritates you.
                              It is not nearly so constant, else the game wouldn't have you roll randomly to see how many points you have after downtime, or talk about how it has fluctuations in intensity. The horror also becomes greater if you lose the beast, because you know exactly what's waiting behind the corners of reality, and you now cannot defend yourself nearly so well.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                                The thing is that Rage is a constant in Garou lives, affecting all their relationships and driving them to violence at all times.
                                You're overstating this quite a bit. Rage is, as written, a lot more like hunger (the basic drive to eat, not Hunger). Yes, part of your brain is always thinking about getting more food, even while you're well fed, because we're wired to assume good times now doesn't mean lean times later. But there's a wide spectrum of situations between, "I'm kinda hungry I should cook something in the next hour or so," and, "I'm so hungry I'm literally prepared to kill and eat the person sitting next to me." Rage like-wise spans a spectrum from an easily ignored pang in the back of your mind, to an overwhelming destructive force. The far end of the spectrum is not constantly on, it's an extreme.

                                On top of this, the Garou have human level intellects, and have developed (literally) dozens of ways to reduce the impacts of Rage even further. This goes from simple behavior patterns (schedule your time around squishy people in the week around a new moon to minimize the impact of moon phase on Rage), to a host of magics designed specifically to keep Rage from messing things up. The Garou know how to give themselves respite from the demands of Rage to ease the emotional toll it can take.

                                This of course creates a problem because for the most part it makes the history of the Garou look like either: stupidity over tragedy ("Wait, nobody even brought a Harmony Flute to this super important high tension meeting?"), or just a lot of handwaving by the authors that clashes with actual play experience (I've been playing WtA for ~25 years, I've never had a Frenzy outside of combat because the dice said so, it's only happened because my ST and I agreed it would be a good story moment to happen).

                                Don't pawn this off on the players "ignoring" things. The authors hyped up something the rules don't backup. An American Werewolf in London isn't what it's like to be a Garou, it's a cautionary tale Garou tell about what happens if Lost Cubs aren't found in time. If you made it to a default PC (aka a Cliath) you might have done some regrettable things in the past, but you're past that sort of situation being your reality.

                                Sure, you can play the Garou as a good life but it's a pretty miserable one if you don't want to kill everyone who irritates you.
                                What, exactly, are you basing that on?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X