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Chances of W5 being Forsaken Reskinned?

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  • #16
    I really don't like the changes made to V5 both Mechanically and Setting wise. I don't have much hope for W5 to be any better. I'm happy some of the better Onyx Path Freelancers are still making stuff for the 20th Anniversary lines in the Storyteller's vault. Cause I know I'll probably be skipping the rest of the 5 lines after purchasing V5.

    I'll just be waiting for 6th edition and hoping it's less "Salt and Burn the Earth" than 5th edition was to the 20th anniversary editions.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Gryffon15 View Post
      Yeah, to my understanding the canon name for Older’s Brother time is not taboo in the same way that Younger Brother’s is, but it’s still meant to only be invoked in certain specific ritual fashions iirc. The names of the Abrahamic G-d might be a good analogue.

      I’m not familiar with any similar tradition surrounding ‘Sasquatch’.

      I do also like ‘Bane Tender’ as a name for Older Brother, although I worry it gives the game away to quickly. Perhaps ‘River Serpents’ or ‘Rite Binders’.

      Yeah, keeping Older Brothers Patron as Horned Serpent or Water Panther does reflect their somewhat untrusted nature....as Bane Tender is already a Camp I'd like another name but I'm not too fussed.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post
        I really don't like the changes made to V5 both Mechanically and Setting wise. I don't have much hope for W5 to be any better. I'm happy some of the better Onyx Path Freelancers are still making stuff for the 20th Anniversary lines in the Storyteller's vault. Cause I know I'll probably be skipping the rest of the 5 lines after purchasing V5.

        I'll just be waiting for 6th edition and hoping it's less "Salt and Burn the Earth" than 5th edition was to the 20th anniversary editions.

        I have a sliver of hope for W5 purely based on the writing team Hunters Entertainment has put together, but yeah V5 hasn't been a good experience for myself.

        I'm loving the Vault material we're getting from Developers and Freelancers.

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        • #19
          V5's attempts to mechanically copy requiem were somehow all worse than requiem, and attempts to do new things were mostly terrible. It wasn't even a worst-of-both worlds option, it was just worse-than-both-worlds. It was the bad, the objectively bad, and the ugly. I cannot, within the confines of forum rules, express my full range of thoughts concerning this, but I do wonder how they thought it was a good idea to publish much of that book. (the metaplot is mostly fine, some of it might even be good, this sentiment is just about the mechanics)

          A problem with a W5 product in general is that the combat system of V5 was extremely simplistic and that won't do for werewolf; Werewolf is a very combat heavy game with many, many powers boosting combat capabilities in some way and where you're meant to get very visceral with descriptions and targeting which is detail no longer possible with the v5 system. One also has to wonder if werewolves are going to be capped in how many gifts they can learn at each level.

          The tribes are a difficult thing to really talk about because they're straddling this line where they're meant to be provocative but they're also to varying degrees racist. I do worry that, in trying to untangle the racism, they'll go too far and remove the provocative elements.


          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Erinys View Post

            I didn't know that. What would be a good replacement name?
            Amarok

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarok_(wolf)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
              Awesome 😊😊


              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                Again, IME, what things are linked to matters. What pissed people off about the Wendigo far more than the name was that they're presented as the worst mix of the Noble Savage tropes, shoehorned into being the "warrior" Tribe for the Pure Lands (though that's another one that did not sit well) when the Uktena were given a much deeper cultural outlook, and being obsessed with being angry at Europeans.
                Did the Revised tribebook improve on this? Or are they still in the same "Needs a new Tribebook" category as the Children of Gaia?


                I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Erinys View Post
                  Did the Revised tribebook improve on this? Or are they still in the same "Needs a new Tribebook" category as the Children of Gaia?
                  I can -only- speak from what I read, but the revised TB does list that it was written with the aid of the Nunavut goverment. In general it discusses a lot of the First Nation rights issues in a very serious tone, listing reference books in the end.

                  So, if nothing else, an effort was made.


                  My gallery.

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                  • #24
                    The Revised Tribebook is an improvement, but as noted, it's not necessarily "fixed."

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                    • #25
                      Yeah, they have to gut the whole Icehearts of their angry at the wyrm comers and make them more tough survivors that already survived a Apocalypse that are ferociously protitive of their kin and traditions on account of the whole Genocide thing.

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                      • #26
                        Yeah, the Revised edition certainly felt more fleshed out and nuanced and added a lot of useful material, but I wouldn’t say it necessarily fixed the issues.

                        Of course there is an argument to be made that Younger Brother serves as an important contrast to Older Brother, showing an intense desire to retain traditional customs in the face of destruction and harnessing a justified anger at one’s current state.

                        I’m not really qualified to discuss indigenous issues in a great amount of detail but I would say that for those who are interested, ‘Werewolf: the Podcast’ (a podcast about WtA) did an episode on indigenous issues and indigenous storytelling in werewolf, with guest James H. Sambrano, who is indigenous himself and (iirc) a cultural anthropologist specializing in indigenous groups.

                        This is just my recollection of his background, he goes more into it in the episode. But yeah, I think it’s pretty interesting and he does go into a fairly in-depth discussion of Older & Younger Brothers’ use as allegories for indigenous experience and also his concerns with werewolf’s unfortunate tendency to appropriate aspects of various indigenous beliefs and customs in inappropriate fashions.

                        The episode is an hour long and very informative imo, I highly recommend it.

                        (#nonspon, I’m not connected to the podcast in any way, I just think it’s neat)

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                        • #27
                          I think it's pretty unlikely that W5 will be "Forsaken reskinned." For one thing, Requiem seems to have been what the Masquerade designers were kind of going for the whole time, with the focus on small-scale factional politics over world-spanning metaplot, so it makes sense that they'd reuse some of those ideas on V5. On the other hand, I don't think the same is true for Werewolf; Apocalypse was always about this enormous war between cosmic forces, and I don't think you can take that away without killing any interest in W5 (and yes, I know taking away metaplot stuff killed a lot of interest in V5, but probably not to the same extent). Additionally, Forsaken and Apocalypse are way more different from each other than Masquerade and Requiem are, so I don't know how they could use Forsaken mechanics and have them at all fit with Apocalypse lore.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gulielmus Bastardus View Post
                            I think it's pretty unlikely that W5 will be "Forsaken reskinned." For one thing, Requiem seems to have been what the Masquerade designers were kind of going for the whole time, with the focus on small-scale factional politics over world-spanning metaplot, so it makes sense that they'd reuse some of those ideas on V5. On the other hand, I don't think the same is true for Werewolf; Apocalypse was always about this enormous war between cosmic forces, and I don't think you can take that away without killing any interest in W5 (and yes, I know taking away metaplot stuff killed a lot of interest in V5, but probably not to the same extent). Additionally, Forsaken and Apocalypse are way more different from each other than Masquerade and Requiem are, so I don't know how they could use Forsaken mechanics and have them at all fit with Apocalypse lore.
                            Wait if the Masquerade writers wanted a local tier one or two style type of game then why did they give us all the antivullan stuff?

                            And the world spanning organizations.

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                            • #29
                              World spanning organizations and religious fears of an apocalypse ultimately drive the themes and pressures of local games. It's like being in a small town in Georgia, USA; You can stay in that town, but unless it's entirely closed off it's going to be effected by the history, culture and politics of Georgia, which in turn is affected by it's presence in the united states. So to do the ideas of 'big things' effect small, local games.


                              Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                              • #30
                                I don't see why they should reskin any from Forsaken into Apocalypse. By W20 the entire line feels more or less complete. Besides Forsaken is way, way too different from Apocalypse from the snippets I read and heard about it. The thing I hate the most about Forsaken and at large CofD is that it doesn't even the Umbra, that's already a huge downgrade considering the Umbra is my favorite aspect of oWoD/WoD.

                                Also I agree with MyWifeIsScary that how they "adapt" CofD mechanics is horrible and to begin with I don't even like anything from CofD save for how it handled its interpretation of Changeling. Attempting the same thing like what they did for Requiem being sewn into Masquerade for Apocalypse's own CofD counterpart sounds like a horrid idea. All it needs is some good ORIGINAL overhauls/updates to the mechanics (aka not take stuff that's meant for CofD into oWoD), a update on how the Garou and other Fera are carrying on from 1999 to 2020, maybe some new supplement books and that's it. Nothing needs to be taken from CofD.

                                Also- Masquerade was and IS (before V5 became the aforementioned "reskin") better than Requiem bar none. I read Requiem and I don't buy how people think its better than Masquerade or how anything from CofD is on par with oWoD. And no I don't even say this with "nostalgia goggles" because I only ever got introduced to White Wolf in 2018.
                                Last edited by Shakanaka; 08-12-2020, 05:42 PM.


                                Jade Kingdom Warrior

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