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Metis by inter-fera parentage?

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  • Metis by inter-fera parentage?

    In some German forum the question came up and I'm fairly certain, that Kitsune/Bastet-sex wouldn't produce a Metis for they aren't the same species. But is there an actual text reference to that?

    In either W20 or revised and pre-revised books ?

  • #2
    I don’t know, i don’t think they’ll be able to reproduce, but then let’s just say there child counts as kinfolk to only one of the parents. Like a flip of the coin.

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    • #3
      Why wouldn't they be able to reproduce in homid form (both are homid breed, I'd guess)?
      And why would the 10% chance of breeding true (not factoring in talens from Hammer&Klaive and pure breed according to Kinfolk:Unsung Heroes, since none of them is kin) be invalid?
      IMO, the child could be Kitsune, Bastet, Kitsune-Kin, Bastet-Kin, kin to both or human.

      But this post shouldn't be about guessing what it could be. For the discussion in the German forum, I was just wondering, if any of you knew a text reference to that, especially from W20 sources, which I didn't read.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by heinrich View Post
        Why wouldn't they be able to reproduce in homid form (both are homid breed, I'd guess)?
        And why would the 10% chance of breeding true (not factoring in talens from Hammer&Klaive and pure breed according to Kinfolk:Unsung Heroes, since none of them is kin) be invalid?
        IMO, the child could be Kitsune, Bastet, Kitsune-Kin, Bastet-Kin, kin to both or human.

        But this post shouldn't be about guessing what it could be. For the discussion in the German forum, I was just wondering, if any of you knew a text reference to that, especially from W20 sources, which I didn't read.
        In Storyteller's Handbook revised, pages 191-192, the answer is as follows;

        90% chance to be kin of EITHER breed, 5% percent chance to be a garou, 5% chance to be the other breed.

        It says nothing about coywolves, but given the kids ENTIRELY lose any PB they might have otherwise, I'd say its either or.


        My gallery.

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        • #5
          Thanks. That is what I was looking for...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

            In Storyteller's Handbook revised, pages 191-192, the answer is as follows;

            90% chance to be kin of EITHER breed, 5% percent chance to be a garou, 5% chance to be the other breed.

            It says nothing about coywolves, but given the kids ENTIRELY lose any PB they might have otherwise, I'd say its either or.
            Oh so a Corax and a Nagah could produce a Anansi?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

              Oh so a Corax and a Nagah could produce a Anansi?
              No, only the breeds breeding XD

              Coywolves are an unique case, since coyotes and wolves CAN (and WILL) interbreed. This is something I don't think anyone really knew when making the Nuwisha.


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              • #8
                Gaia knew.

                Corax and Ratkin aren't so much born than created, iirc, so I guess their 5% then is moved to the other parent's side to keep the 10% shape shifter quote....

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
                  No, only the breeds breeding XD

                  Coywolves are an unique case, since coyotes and wolves CAN (and WILL) interbreed. This is something I don't think anyone really knew when making the Nuwisha.
                  Which makes things awkward considering this occurs naturally, so it can come from a lupus or kin of either fera that might not know they're with another changer.

                  Considering the changer would have a half-wolf/half-coyote form in Lupus, it's kind of up in the air what happens to it.

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                  • #10
                    If I remember correctly (1st, 2nd, Revised?) if Nuwisha & Garou breeds true, the mother's "race" determines what the offspring will be.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
                      If I remember correctly (1st, 2nd, Revised?) if Nuwisha & Garou breeds true, the mother's "race" determines what the offspring will be.
                      There was no rule in 1st and 2nd, iirc, but starting with revised the BREED of the mother determined the species of the offspring. The rule above explicitly is for homid/homid pairings (breedform, apparently not necessarily the form they have sex with each other in).

                      If the mother is animal-brees (lupus, feline, etc.) than the chance of breeding true is only 5% and 95% animal kinfolk of her breed, so wolf for lupus, different feline for bastet tribes, etc.

                      I don't know what the editorial decision to have it this way was. Ethan Skemp, to my knowledge, never explained it.

                      But basically a lupusborn garou having sex in homid form with a human male can lead to conception and will make the human biological dad to a litter of wolves.

                      In my opinion the rule should be, that the non-changer side of the pairing determines the species of the offspring. And that is how we handle it in our LARP, which was written without knowledge of revised rules.

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                      • #12
                        I've find it.

                        Nuwisha Breedbook, pg. 47.

                        It writes as I've remembered. It writes race & not breed. So a Garou may have a Nuwisha offspring (but not Metis).


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                        • #13
                          Ah, okay. That may be something special about the Nuwisha/Garou pairing.
                          Doesn't tell if the revised standard that the breed is identical to the mothers is still applicable.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by heinrich View Post
                            Ah, okay. That may be something special about the Nuwisha/Garou pairing.
                            Doesn't tell if the revised standard that the breed is identical to the mothers is still applicable.
                            One detail that immediately springs to mind is that, given how closely related coyotes and wolves are, a latrani or lupus mother might still be able to have either Nuwisha or Garou offspring.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                              One detail that immediately springs to mind is that, given how closely related coyotes and wolves are, a latrani or lupus mother might still be able to have either Nuwisha or Garou offspring.
                              It certainly would make sense to have an exception there, even if the official RAW state that it isn't possible.

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