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The acceptance of Awakened Kinfolk

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  • The acceptance of Awakened Kinfolk

    In an upcoming Mage game a player wants to play a awakened kinfolk (Related to the Fianna). He also wants to stay in contact with the family, where his father is a Garou. But they do not like mages for various reasons. How should the relationships with other Garou be presented? Especially with the father.

  • #2
    What's the best thing for what your group wants to explore? Is the player paying points (Merits, Backgrounds, etc.) for this relationship and thus deserves to have them be of appropriate value?

    There's no single "should" here. The Garou in general might not like mages, and might reject kinfolk that choose the Traditions over sticking with the Garou Nation to only practice as the Garou dictate, but the Garou are individuals that deviate from the norm rather than mindless drones.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Corvinus View Post
      In an upcoming Mage game a player wants to play a awakened kinfolk (Related to the Fianna). He also wants to stay in contact with the family, where his father is a Garou. But they do not like mages for various reasons. How should the relationships with other Garou be presented? Especially with the father.

      They don't like Mages because Mages are dangerous. This isn't like they don't like Vampires(because they are given a sacred duty to wipe them from the face of the planet). This gives a wide latitude everything from tense family issues, being seen as the black sheep of the family or being treated as "The only good one". There's no shame in having a Mage child. They are a POTENTIAL danger... but then so are certain tribes.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
        What's the best thing for what your group wants to explore? Is the player paying points (Merits, Backgrounds, etc.) for this relationship and thus deserves to have them be of appropriate value?

        There's no single "should" here. The Garou in general might not like mages, and might reject kinfolk that choose the Traditions over sticking with the Garou Nation to only practice as the Garou dictate, but the Garou are individuals that deviate from the norm rather than mindless drones.

        Yes, the question was poorly formulated. How should can be replaced with how could. That is exactly what I want to prevent. That I do not want to portray them as fanatical drones, while at the same time I do not want to ignore the culture. So what I should keep in mind.

        It plays down the Ascension war and focuses more on horror. More present role for Stuff like Nephandi and Entropy. A side effect is that it is more compatible with Apocalypse.

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        • #5
          I think one aspect is to what level does the character show public/open allegiance to the Garou, following their laws, guidance, and orders, and to what degree the character shows an independent streak and wanting to put their opinions ahead of that of the Garou. Someone who does what their told is much more likely to be accepted and tolerated by Garou. Someone who puts their opinion ahead of the decisions of the Garou elders are more likely to be viewed suspiciously or considered to be a danger. Garou are much more likely to view a kinfolk Mage as someone uppity then a dependable tool under their control. Similarly, the form the mage's magick takes will also be important, as one whose paradigm/order fits with established Gaian lore is more likely to be accepted than one who diverges from it greatly.

          The relationship between the father and child will also deal with other issues than just this political one with the greater Garou Nation and local sept. Lots of things can be justified depending on the nature of the NPC and PC and the established relationship between the two before being awakened and what happened during that initial time. It could be loving and supported to estranged but still loving to anger and rivalry.

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          • #6
            The general Garou view about Mages is that they are the equivalent of children playing with loaded handguns. That said, it's entirely conceivable for a group of them to want to stay in contact a Kinfolk, provided said Kinfolk isn't acting like a complete muppet. And it's unlikely that the leadership of a Caern (unless it's a very small one) will be willing to let any Mage or group of Mages enter the Caern itself. But as Heavy Arms said, there's no real One True Way to handle this sort of thing.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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            • #7
              There's definitely a lot of options here. If the player buys a Merit to be a kinfolk and a mage, they should have at least a few of the kinfolk be friendly. The other kinfolk should recognize the mage as kinfolk and even if hostile, be non-homicidal (they are kinfolk, so we have to give them a modicum of respect and can't harm them without a good reason). The caern should be kept safe and since caerns could double as nodes, these would be sources of conflict with mages.

              As for the Fianna, they would likely have some good relations with mages from the Cult of Ecstasy with a musical bent and perhaps some Verbena.

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              • #8
                The First Edition TB FIanna iirc mentioned Verbena as present among the Fianna Kinfolk.

                While the garou would try to keep their caerns hidden from Mages, there are certainly reasons for teamups and if the Mages are extended family, that is doubly true. Still, garou will remain vigilant.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Corvinus View Post
                  So what I should keep in mind.
                  Again I'm going to stress the need to take traits into account as one of the first things to keep in mind. A character that's kinfolk as a character quirk (no Merit, no Background, etc.) implies a character that, at best, has a "don't kill me on sight for being in the wrong place at the wrong time" card with the Garou. Even if their father and kin family want to be more supportive, they can't publicly and the Garou make it hard to do things with outsides on the down low. A character with the Merit that makes you Kin, that takes Pure Breed and other Backgrounds flavored towards the Garou Nation (Contacts among the other Kin, their father as a high dot Ally, etc.), implies a character that's managed to gain some ground as a friend of the Nation enough that those that aren't inclined to really care about the "Namers = Bad" default can operate more openly in favor of the PC with at least the local Garou beyond direct blood relations.

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                  • #10
                    Really depends what Tradition or Craft they Awakened into. Like heinrich said, Verbenae would be a good choice.


                    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                    • #11
                      I think a Mage that is Kinfolk only has the option to be kinfolk by getting the Merit.
                      I mean, an ST could just decide a given character is Kinfolk, but probably shouldn't....

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                      • #12
                        To the Tradition of the mage in question: Verbenae and Dreamspeakers are kinda the default ones for kinfolk mages, but you can make almost any Tradition work if you know the lore well enough (the Aided faction of the Chakravanti and Fianna that follow the Morrigu probably get long pretty swimmingly).

                        As for Merit or not? Merits are, technically, optional mechanics. Sure, I don't know anyone that doesn't use them at this point because they're just too integrated into the way we see characters, but if your ST says no Merits/Flaws, there's lots of things in there that shouldn't be conceptually off-limits even if the mechanical benefits aren't there. I don't need a Merit to play a Garou with a strong pack mentality, it's just nice that Merit exists for making it more than a role-playing quirk.

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                        • #13
                          Also bear in mind that the Mages Focus is going to play a big part in their acceptance, also that Garou are not as concerned about Kinsfolk learning ritual or ' hedge magic's ' and there are very few ways for Garou to tell that your actually using Sphere magic....and at low Arete the Mage themselves doesn't really know/can tell the difference anyway.

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                          • #14
                            Isn't this double dipping in the special jar?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dwight View Post
                              Isn't this double dipping in the special jar?
                              Not really, the only special thing Kinfolk get mechanically is immunity to the Delirium, which Mages have anyway. Kinfolk doesn't automatically mean well liked.

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