"Definition" of being Garou

[heinrich]

heinrich When you wrote about Totem having the last word about cub joining the Tribe nothing clicked in my mind. Where did you find it? Because if that's true then I've been ignoring that part for over 20 years 😮.

Revised Core page 63 "Tribes":

When a cub undergoes the Rite of Passage, the totem of the tribe initiating him chooses whether to accept him or not — if the tribal totem approves, then the cub is part of the tribe, finally a full-fledged Garou.

The section is rewritten in W20, the passage is not there anymore.

From my knowledge it goes like that:
1. A Cub is found, either by Kinfetch or after more or less drastic First Change.
2. The Tribe/Sept decides which Tribe would be the best for the Cub or trades it if it isn't worthy: a Homid Cub found by Red Talons, Black Furies finding male, Silver Fangs finding someone not pure enough, Bone Gnawers someone not dirty enough. The one thing that always bothered me is what happens when Silent Striders, who are cut off from their Ancestor spirits, find somebody with good contact with a long gone Garou.
3. All the training
4. Rite of Passage
5. After successful Rite of Passage Master of Rites (or other high rank Theurge) invites the spirits and that's when the Totem begins its patronage over a pack or, if the Rite was for a single Garou, acknowledge the Cub's achieving rank of Cliath.

I'd say it goes this way:

1. Cub is found
   • Either a kinfetch once bound to the kid seeks out a garou of the appropriate tribe. With the Baptism of Fire a tribe laid claim to the cub. But that might not be the case anymore in W20, since the discussed changes to the setting.
   • If raised by kinfolk the cub might experience dreams and such and is brought to the garou
   • The cub might just frenzy and kill whomever is there. Garou will intervene after the fact or if they employed divination Rites/Gifts even before that.
2. Tribal affiliation is primarily determined by ancestry. But....
   • if parents are from different tribes, there might be some discussion.
   • if the child is not suitable for that tribe, other tribes will have to step forward
   • if ancestry can't be determined (with W20 a Rite from the Get TB is moved into the general Rites category, and therefore garou could probably always determine the ancestry of a cub).
3. The training
   • if during the training the cub proofs unfit for the tribe another tribe may come forward or the garou turns Ronin. But usually one has to be very unwilling to not be suited for Bone Gnawers, Children of Gaia or (if female) Black Furies.
4. The Rite of Passage is enacted. The Ritemaster calls to the tribal totems of the tribes the cubs want to enter. While the Rite may be hard, the tribal affiliation should be a no-brainer. Since no Ritemaster would call out a Tribal Totem if he didn't believe the cub was suitable for the tribe. But sometimes other factors happen. A totem might reject a cub because of his god-like knowledge and prophetic abilities. Or the sept leader pressures the Ritemaster to send his nephew on a third Rite of passage, despite surviving two attempts by cowardice. Fenris might object, violently. Like I said, it is the garous' shared responsibility to make sure the cubs enter the tribes they fit in and how difficult the Rites of Passages are. This responsibility should not be shuffled off to the Totem (and NPC and therefore the ST).
5. The Cliath might decide to join a existing pack. He succumbs to the ban of the totem, provides chiminage and therefore is allowed to spend XP on the Totem background. Or the cliath doesn't join a pack right away. Or the former cubs who went on a joined Rite of Passage decide to stay a pack, then the Rite of Totem might bind a pack Totem avatar to the pack, if the Totem accepts the pack.

[Black Fox]

Several years as a cub is something I established in my head. I don't think the books go into this in much detail, and it is something usually handwaved in games. Obviously in LARPs and online games with large player bases, some of whom start as cubs, they don't take that long before the PC graduates to Cliath - but that is essentially an OOC consideration, not something with setting justification. In those cases, Players just want to spend some time roleplaying that, and then move onto the fun stuff. I fall into Ana Mizuki's camp of 2-5 years as a cub as part of the setting (which I admit is usually not followed by PCs or character templates).

I think a lot of the basic skills a Garou is supposed to know takes a few years to attain. And things like apprenticeships, service academies, military instruction, college, etc. and other preparatory instruction plus initial on-the-job training typically takes a few years. In the book, there are a lot of things like that are very concise like "spend Rage" - but what exactly does that mean? Channeling, directing, and controlling a supernatural power like requires some amount of time to master. And the Garou have a lot of powers like that. And things like the Litany isn't a simple 13 phrases to memorize. It's an epic poem which in its long form can take many hours to recite. And the 13 precepts are just the most important laws, not the only ones. And that's just the local version. Since every tribe and sept has its version, if one was attempting to master the Litany, that's quite a commitment. Now most cubs are probably only going to remember the basic 13 precepts once they graduate. But they'll probably be exposed to the entire thing like students in Literature class reading whole books and plays except expected to memorize much of it short term (and if you are a Philodox or Galliard, it's likely you'll be spending much of your life trying to cement it in your long term memory). I detailed a lot of that in a very old post here.

The dots in abilities are supposed to represent a kind of mastery - and we know there are general expectations of time taken to achieve that mastery. Now in practice, most games do NOT take this into consideration. If someone wants to go from 2 dots to 3 dots in a skill, the ST simply allows it to happen. Want to learn a foreign language? Spend the XP and move on. In reality, these are actually commitments that take time and effort to achieve. So if we step back from treating it like a game and treat it like an actual society, we can see that even getting that 12 year old who changed into having abilities that are ranked 2 is quite a commitment - and that's very common.

Secondly, outside the abilities and powers being learned, the Garou have to indoctrinate the cub. Essentially the Garou act like a cult engaged in brainwashing. That takes time. For many cubs, everything about Garou society has to be learned in far more detail than we as PCs will ever have to do. The Litany, Silver Record, mythology stories of the spirits, displays of hierarchy and dominance have to be learned. Even Garou who were once kinfolk in a controlled community are going to learn a lot of new things. A sept will want their new Garou to be taking pride in Garou society, fanatical, and unquestioningly loyal. Many aspects of Garou will lend itself to that fellow Garou aren't affected by the Curse, they're told they're important heroes, giving personal attention and support. Those all aid things. But cubs will also have varying degrees of homesickness, preconceived ideals and values, and orneriness that will need to be overcome.

There are of course variations between tribes and septs. The Fianna would be an example of a tribe with a lot of information and training they'll be dumping on a cub to master. The Bone Gnawers will likely spend a minimal time and concentrating mostly on the things needed to survive and control (like preventing Frenzy, preserving the Veil, hustling on the streets). So "several years" is both loose and an average.

There will also be variations based on the cubs themselves. A 12 year old who changes is going to be a cub for many more years than a Lost Cub who's been an adult working in human society. That 12 year old may be a cub for 4 years or more. That guy in his late twenties might be processed in an accelerated program - not just because he already has many life skills, but because as someone used to the autonomy of being an adult, it's not practical to keep him a cub for too long.

Lastly, if it is really true that cubs just need a year, we'd see character concepts in the books like a 13 year old Garou cliath NPC. And we don't. And I don't see such concepts in chronicles either. The youngest always seems to be late teens. So what about all those cubs who changed in early adolescence - perhaps as early as 10? They clearly seem to be stay as cubs for a long time. So in addition to the normal educational and indoctrination needs, there's probably some age that marks a Garou's age of maturity when they're ready to be adults and the rite of passage and they're simply not allowed to do it until then. Even the Bone Gnawers probably follow that rule. I'd say 16 is a likely candidate. I don't think people really want to see 11, 12, etc. year old Garou cliaths fighting the Wyrm because those concepts are always absent. (Now such a concept could be interesting for one NPC that may shock and compel the PCs to investigate this. It could be a great RP hook. But I think it would change the game a lot if we did see Cliaths that young as a standard.)

[Nail Eater]

So, there aren't rules to "unlearn" things (besides ageing) but sure, the cubs have to adapt a lot of new behaviour. But should it really take several years?
RAW, there is only the Instruction Skill that talks about time requirements to learn any stat. If that was applied then one had to be on the same page what dots a cliath should have in several traits to be allowed the Rite of Passage. Brawl, Dodge/Athletics for Combat. Physical attributes, too. Primal-Urge for shape shifting. But, that's it, isn't it? Subterfuge is wasted when one can't talk to humans due to the Curse - leading their thoughts on rationalisation after the Delirium might be a good help in protecting the Veil, though. Rituals is helpful, but the stance on cubs learning Rites might change from sept to sept and Den parent to Den parent. Gnosis is metaphysical, the ST has to decide if it can even be taught

Yeah. That's funny cause it's hard for me to imagine an average teenager without Subterfuge AT LEAST 2 😁.

And what is RAW?

[Shakanaka]

RAW is an acronym for "Rules as written".

[Nail Eater]

I guess I'm only basing this off my college experience. How long does army boot camp typically last, just 6-12 months? Of course a cub needs more than boot camp, they need all the other instruction too.

In my country, when there was a draft, during the Warsaw Pact it was 2 years (3 in the Navy), later it was 1 year (2 in the Navy) and, before our army change its profile to professional, it was reduced to 9 months regardless of type. But I believe the general I've mentioned that it would take about 6 weeks to train a soldier. He's an elite so he knows what he's talking about. The rest of the time was spent on learning ranks, marching etc.

[Black Fox]

I guess I'm only basing this off my college experience. How long does army boot camp typically last, just 6-12 months? Of course a cub needs more than boot camp, they need all the other instruction too.

Boot camp is simply Basic Training. That is some simple indoctrination, getting people into physical shape, and very basic skills training. That's ten weeks.

THEN recruits go to Advanced Individual Training where they learn their actual JOBS they'll be doing in the military. That's six to twelve more months.

Recruits selected for the hardest occupations (say running the nuclear engines on a supercarrier or submarine) take even longer. They won't leave until two years after they enlist (at least in the US military).

But of course, military recruits don't join when they are ages 10-16 like when Garou have their first change. They join after high school graduation when they've already acquired a certain amount of knowledge and skill. A high school education isn't much, but it should still reflect 1 dot ranks in Abilities like Academics, Computer, Drive, and possibly Science, Technology, Crafts, Athletics, Leadership, and Expression among others. And likely a few more abilities from hobbies and life experience. The military has standards too - and prospective recruits who fail certain standards don't get accepted.

[Ana Mizuki]

This has bugged me for a long time, because it would just be impossible for most werewolves to pull off. And yet if you don't have a job (not an average job, but one of the increasingly rare really good jobs that pays a real living wage) you are homeless and can barely find food. Oh and if you didn't get a high school or university education, you just can't have one of those jobs, so you better hold off your Rite of Passage until you're 19, at least.

So why isn't every single Garou tribe living like the Bone Gnawers and Red Talons?) The Bone Gnawers and Red Talons should be poor because their Kinfolk (and hence septs) are impoverished, not just because their Garou are unemployed.

Kinfolk, rejection of human life entirely and septs/Caerns. Like I've said multiple times in this thread, the kinfolk are the backbone of the Garou Nation. All the fancy things Silver Fangs and Shadow Lords have? Kinfolk owned. Everything they have is bought or made by their kin and so they can focus on being garou. Why should you bother living in squalor when you have people waiting hand and foot to aid you? That is why they are not living like Gnawers and Talons. They live comfy in their septs, supported by their kinfolk.

This is why Glass Walkers in revised TB are said to have such difficult time with their kin, as the garou already do most of the jobs the kinfolk do. Leave the kin doing the shit jobs left.

[Nail Eater]

Several years as a cub is something I established in my head. I don't think the books go into this in much detail, and it is something usually handwaved in games. Obviously in LARPs and online games with large player bases, some of whom start as cubs, they don't take that long before the PC graduates to Cliath - but that is essentially an OOC consideration, not something with setting justification. In those cases, Players just want to spend some time roleplaying that, and then move onto the fun stuff. I fall into Ana Mizuki's camp of 2-5 years as a cub as part of the setting (which I admit is usually not followed by PCs or character templates).

I think a lot of the basic skills a Garou is supposed to know takes a few years to attain. And things like apprenticeships, service academies, military instruction, college, etc. and other preparatory instruction plus initial on-the-job training typically takes a few years. In the book, there are a lot of things like that are very concise like "spend Rage" - but what exactly does that mean? Channeling, directing, and controlling a supernatural power like requires some amount of time to master. And the Garou have a lot of powers like that. And things like the Litany isn't a simple 13 phrases to memorize. It's an epic poem which in its long form can take many hours to recite. And the 13 precepts are just the most important laws, not the only ones. And that's just the local version. Since every tribe and sept has its version, if one was attempting to master the Litany, that's quite a commitment. Now most cubs are probably only going to remember the basic 13 precepts once they graduate. But they'll probably be exposed to the entire thing like students in Literature class reading whole books and plays except expected to memorize much of it short term (and if you are a Philodox or Galliard, it's likely you'll be spending much of your life trying to cement it in your long term memory). I detailed a lot of that in http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-apocalypse-aa/383370-cub-population-in-a-sept"]a very old post here[/URL].

The dots in abilities are supposed to represent a kind of mastery - and we know there are general expectations of time taken to achieve that mastery. Now in practice, most games do NOT take this into consideration. If someone wants to go from 2 dots to 3 dots in a skill, the ST simply allows it to happen. Want to learn a foreign language? Spend the XP and move on. In reality, these are actually commitments that take time and effort to achieve. So if we step back from treating it like a game and treat it like an actual society, we can see that even getting that 12 year old who changed into having abilities that are ranked 2 is quite a commitment - and that's very common.

Secondly, outside the abilities and powers being learned, the Garou have to indoctrinate the cub. Essentially the Garou act like a cult engaged in brainwashing. That takes time. For many cubs, everything about Garou society has to be learned in far more detail than we as PCs will ever have to do. The Litany, Silver Record, mythology stories of the spirits, displays of hierarchy and dominance have to be learned. Even Garou who were once kinfolk in a controlled community are going to learn a lot of new things. A sept will want their new Garou to be taking pride in Garou society, fanatical, and unquestioningly loyal. Many aspects of Garou will lend itself to that fellow Garou aren't affected by the Curse, they're told they're important heroes, giving personal attention and support. Those all aid things. But cubs will also have varying degrees of homesickness, preconceived ideals and values, and orneriness that will need to be overcome.

There are of course variations between tribes and septs. The Fianna would be an example of a tribe with a lot of information and training they'll be dumping on a cub to master. The Bone Gnawers will likely spend a minimal time and concentrating mostly on the things needed to survive and control (like preventing Frenzy, preserving the Veil, hustling on the streets). So "several years" is both loose and an average.

There will also be variations based on the cubs themselves. A 12 year old who changes is going to be a cub for many more years than a Lost Cub who's been an adult working in human society. That 12 year old may be a cub for 4 years or more. That guy in his late twenties might be processed in an accelerated program - not just because he already has many life skills, but because as someone used to the autonomy of being an adult, it's not practical to keep him a cub for too long.

Lastly, if it is really true that cubs just need a year, we'd see character concepts in the books like a 13 year old Garou cliath NPC. And we don't. And I don't see such concepts in chronicles either. The youngest always seems to be late teens. So what about all those cubs who changed in early adolescence - perhaps as early as 10? They clearly seem to be stay as cubs for a long time. So in addition to the normal educational and indoctrination needs, there's probably some age that marks a Garou's age of maturity when they're ready to be adults and the rite of passage and they're simply not allowed to do it until then. Even the Bone Gnawers probably follow that rule. I'd say 16 is a likely candidate. I don't think people really want to see 11, 12, etc. year old Garou cliaths fighting the Wyrm because those concepts are always absent. (Now such a concept could be interesting for one NPC that may shock and compel the PCs to investigate this. It could be a great RP hook. But I think it would change the game a lot if we did see Cliaths that young as a standard.)

In general I can agree with you. Learning a foreign language isn't easy. But, on the other hand, statistically to understand 75% of foreign language you need about 800 words. Average person uses 3000-5000 during words day-to-day activity. The rest is grammar. And even that could be reduced. In Poland, during english classes, I was taught many grammar skills which I never use. In turn most of my vocabulary comes from Cartoon Network, MTV and Eurosport, before they got polish version. Also you talk about Knowledges. Take Talents instead:
"Don't put your thumb inside your fist when you punch something or you'll break it"
Puff, you got your first dot of Brawl.

As for indoctrination I think that there is not much to do. Most of prechange teens are already shoved aside by their peers so they would gladly accept anyone who show them interest (I remember myself as a young teenager). The hardest part is convince them not to use their newfound abilities to avenge school injustices.

I think also that 12 years old will need less time to adapt than a 20 years old (maybe except those raised outside the Kinfolk society). First of all their minds are more flexible. Second, they usually have more free time (6 hrs of school vs at least 8 hrs of college/work). Ok, adults can have their free time after the mythical 10PM, but Kinfolks who raised the cub usually won't mind them returning late (as if they have any choice). But I think that average age of a Cub ready for Rite of Passage is about 14-16. Besides long training could be used in Dark Ages, when Wyrm was weak and the BSDs were almost nonextistent. In modern times I doubt that any Sept have time to teach their cubs about all the complexities of Litany. Besides, longer training raises the chance of finding another cub on your protectorate so that means that either the teachers have to divide their time between their pupils or cut down the training time of a newer one.

[heinrich]

Nail Eater
Regarding the "Rite of Passage" it is not entirely clear what the garou do. The "Rite of Passage" 1st Edition adventure had a full page with a dialogue of between the Rite Master and the returning cubs that are supposed to be the ritual words before the cubs tell the tale of the Rite and then the sept deems them worhty or not. But, as a LARPer we have to get more actual doing into the Rite, so while not written in the rules, it is a fair assumption that Rite of Passage starts with a proclamation. So the sept comes together, around the fire, the Den parent states, that in his opinion the cub or cubs are ready to undergo the rites of passage. If there were mentors/teachers specifically for tribe or auspice matter they will give short testimony and if no objections are formulated, the Ritemaster starts the Rite, naming the cubs, which tribes they want to proof themselves worthy of joining. Then the mission might be given and everyone is reminded that no outside help is allowed. At this point the Ritemaster might (or might not) also call out to the spirits in general to bless the Rite and the Tribal Totems of the tribes in question specifically - for the deeds during the Rite are done by the cubs to proof their worth to them too.
Like I said, it isn't described in the books, but that's how we play it in the LARP, because we can't just handwave this essential part, where all PCs are involved, just like the return of the cubs where the ritual dialogue is held. Also, after the cubs tell their tale, they leave the scene so the PCs of rank can in a semi-InPlay-semi-OutOfCharacter discussion come up with deed names for the Cliaths. After that the cubs return and are given their names and thereby enter the tribes, too. If a tribal totem was to objects, it would have intervened by some means by now.

But that whole process has nothing to do with the Rite of Totem, that binds a pack and a totem. Except that we require a pack to only have members of at least cliath rank.

[Black Fox]

Take Talents instead:
"Don't put your thumb inside your fist when you punch something or you'll break it"
Puff, you got your first dot of Brawl.

I disagree. Talents aren't developed by book learning, but that doesn't mean they don't take time to master. Talents require practice. The rules for many sports and other athletics are often very simple. That doesn't mean athletes don't spend a lot of time honing their skills, developing muscle memory, conditioning their bodies, and advancing their mastery. They put in a lot of training.

I'd consider equivalents to first dot of Brawl to be high school students with several seasons of competitive wrestling, or several years of classes at their local martial arts school. They've studied the basics and mastered many of the technical skills required, but still have a long way to apply them in novel situations or developed the internal discipline and mental fortitude needed for the next rank. However, I imagine that children who have long played sports competitively in their age group have either achieved their second dot of Athletics or Brawl or are near it by the time they graduate high school. These are the people most likely to continue to compete in such sports in college and beyond.

This by itself doesn't need to take so long especially if it is a subject the cub is very interested in. But once you realize all the things a cub needs to be a functional adult among the Garou, they add up. If you want that cub to become immersed with Garou culture, master all the supernatural powers, and have dots in common abilities like Alertness, Athletics, Brawl, Intimidation, Subterfuge, Primal-Urge, Firearms, Melee, Stealth, Survival, Enigmas, Occult and Rituals, you have some school years there. And many of these abilities are going to be raised to the second dot.

This is just a general average. Some tribes are going to be much more strict in what they expect from their cubs (the Get will emphasize combat; the Fianna cultural and physical excellence, the Silver Fangs and Shadow Lords leadership; the Stargazers will have a heavy intellectual and philosophical approach), and then you have the Bone Gnawers who won't teach anywhere near as much. But they're just as likely to be lazy about teaching the little they do, so who knows that may take a lot longer than you'd be expect.

I think also that 12 years old will need less time to adapt than a 20 years old (maybe except those raised outside the Kinfolk society).

This isn't about making sure kids adapt to the new lifestyle. It's about conditioning them to accept unhesitatingly Garou cultural values so by the time they become adults, they don't question things. Being Garou is very stressful for a variety of reasons. Once exposed to the world outside the sept again, the Garou in question might come into contact with many people and experiences that could cause them to question Garou values and their commitment to them. When that happens, you want them to instinctively reject those ideas. And the way you do that is providing a comprehensive education they can go back on which answers anything that provoke doubts (or at least causes them to go, "I know we're right and they're wrong but I'm having trouble articulating why; I'll go back to my mentor and ask - I should have paid more attention as a cub"). You have to install it early on. If it is done too superficially, those ideals and values won't hold up under pressure or exposure to other ideas. It's why totalitarian states have the Hitler Youth, Red Pioneers, and Red Guards.

Otherwise you run the risk of those idealistic, loyal Cliaths becoming jaded, confused Fostern who ask a lot of embarrassing questions and want to think for themselves instead of finding the answer in Garou culture. The entire culture could fall apart. Garou breeding with Garou. Tolerating man eaters. Not killing high Humanity vampires. Allowing the aged and infirm to become a burden to the sept. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria. Real Bone Gnawer stuff.

It is even more important to train young cubs, because those are your best bet for future fanatics who hold the line and enforce orthodoxy. Those Lost Cubs are going to bring in a lot of ideas they already hold from their human lives. They can't be entirely trusted. It's easy to see them slipping back to bad habits.

In modern times I doubt that any Sept have time to teach their cubs about all the complexities of Litany. Besides, longer training raises the chance of finding another cub on your protectorate so that means that either the teachers have to divide their time between their pupils or cut down the training time of a newer one.

Most cubs likely learn a condensed version of the Litany, but probably more than just the 13 precepts. And certainly some cubs are going to have to study this in depth. You want Philodox cubs to be well grounded. Whether or not that Garou takes their first or second dot in Law is balanced among many other things. Just like not all cubs are going to learn Rituals or specific Rites. But all of them probably get exposed to it, and certain auspices are definitely going to devote time to it. All the auspices are going to be prepared to fulfill their role.

And it's not like when Garou are cubs that they aren't doing anything productive. They're given all the menial and boring work around the sept. They provide free labor to those mentoring them so they can "learn on the job". They can assist the Guardians as look outs and scouts. They're not ready for war yet, but they can still earn their keep.

But I think that average age of a Cub ready for Rite of Passage is about 14-16.

I don't know if it is average, but if some Garou change when they're 10, then certainly a Rite of Passage around 14-16 provides them plenty of time to learn what they need. If a cub changes when they're 16, they probably go on their Rite of Passage later between 18-20.

I will say, I'm now interested in running an NPC who changed when she was 10 and is now a Cliath Ahroun at age 14 just to see how the PCs react. At 14, the Cliath still has several more years of puberty left. I imagine most of my players will think that's too early to start fighting the Wyrm and it might lead to some interesting roleplay.

[Erinys]

Nail Eater one of your posts on this page broke the forum somehow. Could you please check to see if you left a tag open or anything like that?

I think Nail Eater is right that Glass Walkers are less picky than Black Furies.

Kinfolk, rejection of human life entirely and septs/Caerns. Like I've said multiple times in this thread, the kinfolk are the backbone of the Garou Nation. All the fancy things Silver Fangs and Shadow Lords have? Kinfolk owned. Everything they have is bought or made by their kin and so they can focus on being garou. Why should you bother living in squalor when you have people waiting hand and foot to aid you? That is why they are not living like Gnawers and Talons. They live comfy in their septs, supported by their kinfolk.

This is why Glass Walkers in revised TB are said to have such difficult time with their kin, as the garou already do most of the jobs the kinfolk do. Leave the kin doing the shit jobs left.

I agree with you, but the RAW totally contradicts this common sense.

[Ana Mizuki]

I agree with you, but the RAW totally contradicts this common sense.

I don't think it is RAW, as much as it is "this is the thing our writers came up with, using this setting." It is the same reason why so many WtA novels leave out game critical facts such as challenges and Rage. For example, I think Song of the UnMaking is the first WtA novel I've read that actually uses most of the setting stuff such as Rage, challenges, gifts, rites and auspices.

[Shakanaka]

one of your posts on this page broke the forum somehow. Could you please check to see if you left a tag open or anything like that?

I wonder how in the world he did this, lol. He must be a Marauder for somehow breaking the reality of the site.

[Lachdanan]

About the young Garous:
One of my friend's favourite character was a 13-14 year old Silent Strider Ragabash Cliath. It was an intresting RP. He both played the naivety and lack of moral well. It was also intresting when he was a higher Rank, than a much older Garou. He was deadly with Fang Dagger. Unfortunately his skull was smashed into pieces by a silvered knuckles.

My main character (metis) started in the biological age 14. Now he's 20, but experienced more than anybody should. It took years of real time.

[Nail Eater]

I wonder how in the world he did this, lol. He must be a Marauder for somehow breaking the reality of the site.

Neh, only a Glass Walker with a Jinxed flaw 😜.