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  • You're talking now. We're talking in the distant past before things got how they got now. When things like the Tribes actively warring with each other for control over Caerns and kinfolk communities was a thing. When the Tribes weren't widely distributed and very few Septs had more than one Tribe in them; so the idea that women could just go join the Black Furies wasn't really an option for most Garou to consider.

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    • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      You're talking now. We're talking in the distant past before things got how they got now. When things like the Tribes actively warring with each other for control over Caerns and kinfolk communities was a thing. When the Tribes weren't widely distributed and very few Septs had more than one Tribe in them; so the idea that women could just go join the Black Furies wasn't really an option for most Garou to consider.
      What time frame are we talkin about. 1000years back, or 10.000 years.
      In any case, sure the tribes were in conflict with each other, and probably the Black Furies lost territory to other tribes, but might just as well regained some. Possibly now defunct SIlver Fang houses from Rome conquered their lands. As for the Get of Fenris, there is Shadowlord and Tzimisce territory between them and the Black Furies, so sure they might have had skirmishes and conflict, but no danger of actually being destroyed by the other tribe.

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      • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
        For me at least, doesn't matter if WW decide to include or exclude trans-men, we need something that utterly internalizes this decision as an eternal aspect of the setting, and not something that's obviously a writer telling us all to interpret something this way.
        Let's move on from this topic, shall we.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • Out of curiosity, is there any stuff in Changing Ways that people actually like and want to use in their games?


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
            Out of curiosity, is there any stuff in Changing Ways that people actually like and want to use in their games?
            It's not that bad. Though a lot of the ok stuff is -stating the obvious/what I was doing anyway-


            Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
            There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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            • The mechanics of the book are actually pretty good. Chapter 5's discussion of Gifts and Rites and how to toy with them a bit is also nice (esp, if you want to let players actually try to invent their own), and the Gifts and Rites presented are all ones most STs shouldn't have a reason to object to in general; like many, some are niche enough you might not want them in a specific game of course or can be way too good/bad depending on play style. Black Mamba Strike being a Rank 4 Gift is either on point for being awesome, or worthless, depending on how you tend to run combat regarding distance between opponents.

              There's a bunch of mechanics that are interesting, even if best taken as optional rules instead of default ones. Healing Dysfunction as an option for botching a roll to heal in combat, is a nice touch at giving Garou more of a feeling of being living creatures with bodies that don't always do what they want (and makes Battle Scars a bit less of a hand-wave).

              Treating the pack as a character with its own stats has a lot of merit to it, esp. if you have larger packs with NPCs and PCs in them. The new Pack Tactics rules are a good addition, but aren't well integrated with the ones in the core book to the point where they're basically two parallel but different things.

              The Metis Deformities are very hit or miss though.

              A lot of the actual writing in the book is OK. It's a book mostly about role-playing advice, but there isn't really much in the way of new insight and a lot of the suggestions are hit or miss with any given group. It's one of the reasons why the really bad stuff (and even the not so bad but still weird stuff like the new terms) dominates discussion of the book... the majority of it is just OK and a lot of people aren't going to find it worth the cost to read things they already know with different phrasing. There's a few, but not nearly enough, points in the book that actually spark some interesting ideas about ways to play the game you might not have considered before (I'd say the best ones are in the pack and Gift/Rite chapters).

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              • Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                Out of curiosity, is there any stuff in Changing Ways that people actually like and want to use in their games?
                I honestly liked it, the only thing I would argue, is that when books talk about auspices, they repeat the same stuff, same archetypes every time.
                I would like to see more various ways to uphold the roles of the auspices, more creative and out of stereotype ways.


                -'' We are the unsullied.
                We are the inheritors.
                We are the Pure ''-

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